Everyday math

It’s not you…education is like Dr. Jeykll and Mr. Hyde. The sad thing is, the crazy ones pretend to be normal. So you end up with things like Chicago math. They probably love balanced literacy and Reading Recovery, too. Ugh.

Janis

I think Linda is right and the world. or at least the school part of it, has gone mad. We are now in the second generation of not teaching reading, and it shows. How can you teach accuracy and logic to a person who has been taught all her life that a book is/says anything you make it up to be? I have real trouble with more and more of my tutoring students every year; they simply do not hear the lesson.

There is one advantage; if you teach your child sanely, when the real world intervenes in senior high and college and testing, he will be ahead of the curve.

It is a good thing we have some sane tutors like Janis and Victoria who are capable of saving at least a few children.

I have talked to my son and he wants to stay where is he is. The catholic school has room for him and it is an option to keep open if things fall apart.

He seems to be doing well so far. I will just have to provide him with the basic skills for math just like I provided him with the basic reading skills. He has enough skills for this class. He totally understood the discussion of rays and segments (something we probably didn’t do until high school) even if we did have to go over some division principles again. It is kind of funny that he thrives on this stuff even if there is a big hole in his knowledge base of more fundamental skills.

The world is crazy. I am just so glad to find sanity on this board.

Me, too, Linda!

Janis

Linda,
I just found out last night at Back-To-School night that our school is switching to Everyday Math starting this Monday. It is a pretty small private school and they have new teachers in 3rd, 4th and 5th Grades. It seems they talked the school in to switching math programs.

I actually thought it was a good thing… the reason I thought this was that I looked at a small school for the gifted a few years ago between K and 1st. They used Everyday Math, so I’ve had in my mind that it was a good thing. He didn’t go to this school because when I had the required IQ testing done the result was gifted verbal and average performance. Additional testing showed some weaknesses, the worst of which was visual motor. (His visual spatial was something like 85th percentile)…I’m still unclear on whether he has a spatial problem or not and whether to expect problems in geometry.

Our kids sound so much alike and I think they are both in 4th Grade, right? I was told last night that they start with Geometry - great, I thought (for the reason stated above). Maybe we can keep in touch about how things are going and help each other out as they go along!!!

Is there any documentation that states that this is a bad program? Maybe, just maybe, I can do something about it if there is. I could at least try. It starts, supposedly, on Monday!

Lori

I think my school is using this too!!!!!! How disappointing. I feel like “homeschooling/afterschooling” never ends.

Lori,

I lost many of my “favorites” when our computer crashed, but I believe there are comments on Everyday math on a site called www.mathematicallycorrect.com. Here’s just one example:

http://mathematicallycorrect.com/books2g.htm

Janis

I’ve heard parent after parent — and sped teachers, too - describe how everyday math is ‘way too language-dependent and not systematic enough for our kids. I don’t knwo about “regular” kids … but I strongly suspect taht these guys are making the same mistake as “new math” in that they’re trying to impose adult thinking on kids. The philosophy is *wonderful* and the goal great… math really does need to be ebtter connected to reality. It’s really true that too many students have a totally separate thought process for every day numerical things, and another one for doing math homework — and so they never get past the most basic stuff in applying it. I mean, about half the folks coming to me for help with their college math have trouble with the *concept* of basic subtraction when it shows up in math problems — and these are people who most definitely have the concept in life!!
So *maybe* everyday math will help some kids… but our kiddos tend to get lost in the language and the way it skips around.

Thanks for the link I wanted to see how the programs compared. My outside math tutor does Saxon and I think I will stick with it. I saw that the program they use at school (ADD) was not on California’s reccommended list. My child was doing that program just fine and not going anywhere. They are using the same program this year, wonder if I can get them to change.Again, thanks for the great resource.

This is the, “just figure it out,” program. It isn’t logical but I think expects the child to figure out what they are supposed to do based on some very obtuse questions. There is not enough guidance and the format jumps around so that even if a child starts to, ‘get it’ they are on to the next thing.

My son gets the concepts but sometimes the way the questions are asked it is hard (even for me) to understand what they want. I think I will have to do a lot of preteaching using their format of questions so that he understands the question when he gets it in class. Trailblazer math used the same language based method but was MUCH more straight forward and logical.

And of course he has the, “Kids should be independent by fourth grade,” teacher.

I believe this program got a c- from mathmatically correct. I have a call into the teacher to ask that she give him some help understanding the questions.

Right now we are doing geometry too Lori which is the hardest thing for him because of his visual spatial problems. He isn’t doing terrible with it though. He actually does get the language based explanations because that is how he learns.

Yes, the Mathematically Correct site gave this program a C. I am actually surprised that the mark is so high, but then they are reading from an adult perspective and comparing to some other pretty bad stuff.
The MC site noted the disconnectedness, lack of focus, unevenness, and lack of organized setup for the teacher, among other flaws. They also note that the presentation opf the program is very highly dependent on the teacher’s skills, and so highly variable.

Modern education has lost its way on the path of its good intentions. Math instruction is particularly challenged.

No one knows what they’re supposed to be teaching anymore. Is it the operations of math? Multicultural math? Mathematical thinking? Cooperative learning? Writing? Problem-solving? Math as an alternative language expression? Research skills?

So they try to teach it all under the rubric of math but I agree with you - the instruction of good old-fashioned 2+2 = 4 gets lost in the mumbo-jumbo.

The good news is your child is perfectly capable of learning math and likely will. The bad news is the frustration you and he will both feel as you try to puzzle out what the homework is asking of you. I just came home from a tutoring session where I was asked to tutor an Everyday math assignment. I had no idea what was being asked of my student or how anyone could possibly expect a 10 year old to undertake or complete it.

Just wondering if there is a textbook for this program. Linda, I seems you are referencing some sort of textbook. My son started the program, in principle, today. He said they used play dough for something (didn’t get the specifics). He thought that was fun! He brought home 2 partially done xeroxed worksheets…one with geometry and 1 with several operations such as addition, subraction, number sequences, division, time, etc. There were just a couple of each thing.

Again, just wondering if anyone knows what kind of books, etc. come with this program. I ask because I think my son’s school may be doing a piecemeal job with math this year. I called the Head of School at my son’s school on Friday and told him that I was concerned about this program because I heard lots of negative and not much positive feedback about it. He said that they were looking for a way to enhance their existing program (Harcourt Brace) and a new teacher they hired in 3rd Grade was a “presenter” for Everyday Math and the school was using it on a “trial” basis (no cost) in 3rd, 4th and 5th Grades. I don’t know what presenter exactly is…kind of sounds like there is a financial benefit to her to get the school to convert to the program. He assured me that the school’s ciriculum (sp?) still indiciates the importance of drilling skills and that that would continue. He said he would schedule a meeting for next month with the teachers and parents to answer questions about the math program. That gives us a month to see what takes place and research this a bit better.

Any feedback would be appreciated!

Lori

There are some basic questions that sound dumb but which really have to be thought about and answered.

Here is a start:
How much time is there in the school day to teach math? How much time does it take the teacher to teach the “regular” math program? How much time does it take to teach the EM stuff?(more than the standard for sure). Who is going to turn the clocks back an hour to make time for students in this class to do two math programs, when most teachers aren’t even succeeding in covering all the material in one program?

How did the teacher get to be a “presenter” for EM? How much actual training time is involved? How much real world practice does she have teaching this to real (as opposed to selected university school) kids? Does she get a kickback, er, fee?

If the kids when next tested aren’t up to the standard expected by the “regular” program(which, by the way, is a standard commercial program and really could stand some changes — the only question is what is an improvement and what is worse) who is going to find the extra hour in the day to get them back on track?

As for your question about texts, no, there isn’t one. One of the criticisms of the EM program on the “mathematically correct” site is the scattered nature of the materials (above and beyond the scattered mathematical content). There is a teacher’s manual with in-class activities. There are black-line masters for class activities in the teacher’s manual. There are supplementary workbooks for the students. There are some other extra supplementary masters somewhere else. Not to mention the physical materials necessary to teach a concrete class. So the teacher has to sift through at least three sources for the paper materials, plus the concrete materials. There is nothing for the parent or the tutor to get a handle on the progression of the program, to review or to look ahead; everything is in the hands of the teacher and up to her whims as to how, when, and where to present it.
In fact I believe that the original program was designed to have very little paperwork (this is why most of the materials are labelled supplementary) and the ideas were supposed to be developed entirely in cooperative group work. This has been modified to fit the demands of the real American school and the expectations of parents and students for worksheets. I have mixed feelings about this issue since worksheets do not teach and are usually a waste of time and effort, but teaching in a vacuum with no text materials hardly seems an improvement.

I spoke to the teacher. She told me all the kids are having difficulty with everyday math. She said that she needs some time to adjust to this program herself. He did fine with the homework last night.

She thinks he is doing well except that that he has some difficulty copying from the board. I know he needs more near/far focusing work for that. She did offer to make copies of notes if it gets bad.

She told me that he is a very creative writer. They wanted to put him in resource for writing last year. It is a brand new day.
He is doing so well.

Thanks all for letting me stress over this here rather than in my home.

Victoria,
Thanks for your response…I will be sure to ask the questions when we have our meeting.

Even though the principal told me they were going to use EM as an enhancement, I don’t think they are using the Harcourt Brace textbook also. Like you said, I don’t think there is time for both. I think they will be doing the EM program, perhaps (hopefully) supplemented with drilling facts and procedures because that is what is in the school ciriculum. I’m thinking, like you said, that it will be left in the hands of the teacher. That is the impression I’m under at this point, although I could be wrong.

I’m thinking a month to have a meeting won’t hurt anything too badly. It gives us time to try to get a handle on what is going on. My son (as I mentioned in another post) does much better with real life math than worksheet math. He has visual motor, fine motor and motor planning weaknesses. He also has difficulty focusing and sustaining attention. In addition, his frustration tolerance leaves much to be desired. The “Everyday” part sounds great in principle as long as concepts are taught solidly and not all over the place like I’ve been hearing. Although he hates the drilling, I think it is a necessity for skill development and would need to be done in addition to the “Everyday” part.

Thanks so much for your help. I’m sure I will have more questions as things progress!

Lori

[quote=”victoriah”]Yes, the Mathematically Correct site gave this program a C. I am actually surprised that the mark is so high, but then they are reading from an adult perspective and comparing to some other pretty bad stuff.
The MC site noted the disconnectedness, lack of focus, unevenness, and lack of organized setup for the teacher, among other flaws. They also note that the presentation opf the program is very highly dependent on the teacher’s skills, and so highly variable.[/quote]

I am not very familiar with Everyday math, but I believe ANY program, or course, IS subject to flaws of the teacher. I believe one of the flaws of the American school system is its poor teacher preparation. We expect a new teacher to be as capable of an experienced teacher. This makes no sense when we expect professional engineers (PEs) to be in the field for at least 5 years under other PEs as “Engineers in Training” before being considered for this level of expertise. This is after obtaining a Bachelor’s degree.

I’m sure I could list several other professional occupations that require years of “development” to become an “expert,” but the point is that teachers are often undertrained and left to “figure out” how to teach with little guidance or time to improve. I have gathered my ideas from the book called “The Learning Gap” if you want more thoughts about it…I have also started reading “The Teaching Gap” by one of the same authors.

A little background: I have taught in middle and high school (math) for four years. I have an Engineering degree, but decided I needed a profession with more interaction.