testing accommodations

We remediate all the time - in a resource setting. I have seen great progress but I do know there are a lot of programs that have done a lousy job of educating sped kids and those are the ones that get the finger pointing that we are not teaching them anything. If the IQ/discrepancy placement is not the guideline for LD, what do you suppose will be the criteria. I don’t particularly support the whole IQ thing but there is some validity to it. It doesn’t take a rocket scientist to visit with a kid to realize what might be their cognitive level of functioning. I usually make a guess before a psy eval and rarely am I off more then a couple of points.

I don’t care what a child does after she or he graduate from high school but that they have the skills to do something that they can make a living. The problem is, we no longer have jobs that pay enough money to live on for these students. I don’t know if you know this or not, but most restaurants, fast food or chain, give tests; some include writing a personal letter, math and vocabulary. If you don’t pass them you don’t even receive an interview. I have LD kids in academic English, no, they aren’t receiving all As and B’s but they are improving their reading and writing skills so much so that they are passing the SOLs (these are VA high stake tests for VA) and they are making plans for community college and tech schools. We decided in the special education last year, after remdiating their reading and writing, to put them into academic classes inorder to challenge them. These were mostly self-contained students; they have stepped up to the plate and are doing very well. Another reason that we didn’t put them in the ‘basic’ classes, is because in those classes are many regular ed kids that are behavior problems and really don’t care about learning. It made no sense to put ADHD diagnosed students in classes with kids whose main plan was to cause disruption. It has worked out very well. I have very high expectations for my kids and if I and the IEP team feel that they can do well in academic inclusion classes, we give them a chance. The parents are grateful because it gives them hope for the future.

I do agree with you about 85 IQ kids as far as needing remediation. What I don’t understand is why aren’t these kids being remediated if they are in sped? As I said before, most of my kids IQs fall in the range of 80-100. These are the kids that start out in self-contained classes and I don’t view them as not being smart. I continue to view them as not being taught. The word smart takes in more definitions than just being able to receive all As and Bs in gifted or academic classes. I just want my kids to be able to read, write and solve math problems so that they can pass the tests to get a job; get into a community college; regular four year college; or tech school. How it is now, students in special education classes that have not been remediated, are looking at an IEP diploma. If Einstein were alive today, a wonder what our expectations would be for him? Would we accommodate his reading problems and keep him in self-contained classes? I wonder???? There are so many good programs out there that remediate many of what we call learning disabilities that we should all strive as educators and parents to train in them and offer them to our children either in math/ reading classes in school or with a tutor. If some of you parents are wondering what programs are available that have had a high impact of success in the area of reading, auditory processing, math and comprehension either go to the reading bulletin board or email me directly.

I totally agree with you and that is the reasons behind the ‘Leave No Child Behind’ legislation and revamping of IDEA. Whole language has really been the main cause of this problem. It has been too easy to say that when Johnny has reached third grade, still reading at a first grade level, that there is something wrong with him, he is LD. Don’t teach him with a good, researched reading program from the beginning, give him regular ed remediation with Reading Recovery, (that doesn’t work with 98% of the studens) and put him in special eduation. This is what schools have been getting a way with and continue to do so. In VA, the average passing score in the SOLs for school accreditation is 70%. The government has told us that that isn’t good enough, it has to be 85%. We have to show increase particularly in those groups of students that have high risk of failing. These groups are the minorities and special education. At the present time, 25% of these students are passing. This is great but they continue not to look at the many aspects of the problem: poor methodology in elementary school; English not spoken in the home which results in poor language skills; low expectations of both teachers and parents;
lack of resourses in special eduacation with the emphasis placed on accommodations; to name a few. All of our kids that are in sped are tested with accommodations; most of them continue to fail. Those students that have been remediated in writing, reading ( including, of course comprehension), math, with fewer accommodations are passing at a higher percentage. This has to mean something. Parents have to ask the school what they are using to remediate their kids and not just go along with accommodations year after year. Remediation of deficiencies is going to be a big part of the revamping of IDEA.

I agree!

I’m on your same page. I wish I had more parents who were willing to raise the bar and require their children the needed challenge. Too many worry that their children’s self esteem will suffer when they have to work so hard for C’s. I couldn’t agree with you more that we need to raise the bar - unfortunately the parents of the students I work with tend to be professionals and those letter grades are important and happy children are too. What they don’t realize is that if they would let me push them harder they would soar so much higher and be so much happier because they will have accomplished more then they thought they could. We as a department are trying to push more gen ed. with a little struggling on the part of the kids but unfortunately we receive very little support. The ones I can push harder on have done great and we too are looking at community colleges and vo tech for them. We are all enjoying the future. Then there are the others with too many accomodations and a dismal future - we constantly get those parents who threaten to take the school to court if we don’t accomodate to oblivion. We’ll keep swimming uphill until we can get everyone to understand the demands of the real world will not come with constant and excessive accomodations.

But SPED is NOT just for LD. Look at IDEA. LD is only ONE of a number of qualifying disabilities, and not all of them can be fully, or even substantially “remediated’. And we’re not just talking about “slow learners” (low IQ) or MR kids. In my son’s case, I’m talking about an NLD kid with a high average FS IQ, inspite of a large VIQ/PIQ split. There is no “Matthew effect” involved. This has been consistent since his core eval in kindergarten.

THANK G-D that our SPED department doesn’t have the same attitude that you do. He has been at or above grade level at all times. But that has been BECAUSE of the support he has received both at school and at home.

I suppose if our school system weren’t trying to abide by IDEA, (and I didn’t know enough to advocate for his needs) he could have been ignored until he fell substantially below grade level, then been “remediated” up to grade level again, kicked off his ed plan until he slid back into his hole, then “remediated” again. By that point, he would have had emotional problems and probably be considered a “behavior problem” for acting out, or at least be considered “lazy and unmotivated”.

But that is NOT what SPED was intended to do, nor is it the underlying principle behind IDEA.

Other than the fact that you don’t want to deal with these kids in “your” classroom, what _would_ you like to see done with them? Eventually the unremediated kids with NLD tend to commit suicide, so I suppose that no one but their parents has to worry about them after that.

Karen

And we parents who have had to care for our children 24 hours a day will contiue to fight know it all educators just like you so that we can have our children’s needs met. Just because you are the head of the classroom, there is no reason for you to constantly put down parents and present your negative views on special ed… ( I have read everyone of your posts and I am finally standing up and saying how I feel…) You are the same poster who stated you asked about a 504 plan for your child with a broken arm, aren’t you? Well, though this board is called LD online, I would bet you money that there are many of us reading and posting whose children are much more involved who are looking for support and guidance. WE know the reality and we face it at breakfast every morning. We all want our children to acheive and grow, we want a bright future… we don’t need professionals like you forcing your reality down our throats.

BRAVO! The attitude expressed by a small number of the ‘professionals’ on this board is scary! When I was in my udergraduate teacher training, we were taught compassion and empathy along with how to diagnosis and remediate… perhaps somebody missed that class.

hanks Patty,

I’ve held my tongue for a long time now, just trying to post an alternative view point. But a couple (and again, I’ll emphasize a COUPLE, not all) of the teachers who post here show, if not their lack of training, then at least their jaded burned out attitude and a total lack of empathy. They also repeatedly demonstrate their total lack of understanding of the basic tenents of IDEA.

More and more I agree with Reed Martin who says that we don’t need to overhaul IDEA, we just need to enforce compliance.

Karen

>They also repeatedly demonstrate their total lack of understanding
> of the basic tenents of IDEA.
>
> More and more I agree with Reed Martin who says that we don’t
> need to overhaul IDEA, we just need to enforce compliance.

Karen - I could not agree with you more. Thank you for speaking up. I have often wondered if anyone realized that IDEA was not written with LD in mind - that there are many many other reasons why children need special ed services - and that their disabilities cannot simply be remediated. Remediation is great when it is a possibility - its just not my reality.

> Remediation of deficiencies is going to be a big part of the
> revamping of IDEA.

I’m not so sure. I think that NCLB is going to be a big part of remediating deficiences. And I think that some students who are currently classified might no longer meet the criteria and then IDEA can then go back to the reason it was created in the first place - supporting those students whose disabilities cannot be remediated but who still are entitled to, and can get, an appropriate education. I still maintain that if a child’s deficiencies can be remediated away, they should not have been covered under IDEA in the first place.

> The regular education system needs to change and realize they
> have the full range of cognitive skills attending their
> schools. Not just the college bound. Often the solution to
> addressing the needs of the slow learner is through a
> tracking program which is heavily frowned upon these days. I
> don’t have a good answer but putting these kids in sped is
> not the answer.

Oh Look - I agree!

Karen,
I and I think Samantha are talking about those kids with the LD label, not NLD. I am not talking about MR, Autism, multiple handicapped, or even some ED kids. I am strictly talking about LD, noone else. Of course kids with different issues are accommodated according to what they need. NLD is a very new label to have so many kids seemingly diagnosed with it. I don’t really care about the label, I teach to the deficiencies of the students. Of course if I had a child that was suicidal, he or she would be treated with the utmost of care. Please don’t understand me, I was talking about children that mostly have language deficiencies which makes up about 85% of those diagnosed as LD. I have not had a child diagnosed with NLD for the last few years; some ED but rarely NLD. If you read any of my posts in this thread, I was strictly talking about those with language deficiencies. Please accept my apologies if I have upset you, we are speaking about two different things. Shay

I agree. The whole point is to get schools to the point that they can get kids reading WITHOUT putting them in SPED. Actually, my school system has done pretty well there too. My younger son was not learning to read, and in mid 1st grade the classroom teacher had him evaluated by the school reading specialist. She felt that he needed specific help beyond what is given in the classroom. By just having me sign a single paper giving them permission, he was taken out of the class for intensive small group phonics work 40 minutes 4 times a week through the rest of first grade and all of second. They did it at the beginning of 3rd grade too, just to make sure what he had retained what he had learned over the summer and then released him.

We had a neuropsych done on him (for other reasons) after 3rd grade, and one of the comments the neuropsych made was what a good job they had done remediating his decoding issues. She said that the way he tested, she would expect him to have decoding problems, and in the summer before 4th grade, he was decoding on a solid 4th grade level.

Because of his other issues, (ADHD, extremely low processing speed, Generalized Anxiety Disorder and a significant delay in written language) we expected to have to put him on an ed plan. We met with the team at school, and they said they could meet his needs through general ed. I had my doubts, but agreed to see how it worked.

The classroom teacher said that she could handle most parts of what he needed in the classroom. She didn’t want him pulled out because she was afraid it would add to his anxiety. But she said she did need help with him during written language work to keep him on task. They had an aide assigned to his class room to help during these times, and brought both the OT and a SPED teacher in on a consult basis. All through general ed, without even a 504 plan.

As I said, I had my misgivings. But you know what? He’s having a great year. His anxiety level is down. Between an excellent classroom teacher and the help she was given to help him, he’s shown tremendous improvement in his written language.

We’ll keep our eye on things, and take it year by year. But for now, it really _is_ working.

Karen

Hi Shay,

I addressed this to Samantha because it is her attitude that I find objectionable. She certainly made it sound like she felt that these other children didn’t belong in SPED. IDEA was written to provide special education for ALL of these kids. The ones it was not written for were the ones that you so aptly have said have “dysteachia” but of course, they are not truly LD at all. If I misunderstood her, then clearly other people have too.

As far as NLD is concerned, the syndrome was actually first described in the 60’s. And of course its first cousin, Aspergers, long before that. But you are right according to our neuropsychologist; many children are being dx’d as NLD just because of a VIQ PIQ split who do not really fit the syndrome.

As far as the way a suicidal child should be handled, the point must be made that NLD is a developmental disability, not a mental illness. All curent research points to it being the result of damage to the white matter in the right hemisphere.

There is no reason for an NLD child to become seriously depressed or suicidal if his educational and developmental needs are properly addressed from an early age. And that is what I find so utterly scary about blanket the “remediate and out” mentality of some people. The point of special education and the Individualized Education Plan is that each childs needs MUST be looked at separately, and each ed plan written SPECIFICALLY for the nees of that child. Blanket statements and “standard” routines like getting “all” kids off their ed plan by their senior year are short sighted. Blaming parents who object to this blanket treatment for coddling is unfair and IMO shows a complete disregard for the spirit of IDEA.

Karen

I agree whole heartedly about regular ed taking on more responsibility. there are many students in k-3rd grade struggling to learn to read that do not have a learning disability. They may just need different instruction within the regular ed setting and the problem can be remediated.

I am an educator and the last thing I would every say or think is that I know it all. I am a true believer in parents and educators working together. At times I have met parents who are demanding things that are truly not what their child needs and there maybe disgreement. But most of the time parents and myself and the rest of the people working with their children are on the same page. I also work with parents who don’t seem to care at all and they are even more frustrating. Parents are an intregral part of a child’s education and they know their child best. I as an LD teacher value them. I truly hope you don’t have this feeling toward all educators.

I love my children’s teachers! They are wonderful. We treat eachother with mutual understanding and respect. My post was directed toward the educator who continually posts negative attitudes and comments about parents on this and other BB’s on this site. it is of utmopst importance that the teachers and parents work together. My experience has been that they have been my advocates agianst the powers that be, I consider that to be very brave on their part, but they have recognized what is in my child’s best interest. No Sandy, I truely love most teachers… thank you!

> The whole point is to get schools to the point that
> they can get kids reading WITHOUT putting them in SPED.

I think another poster noted that special education is not a placement. You must then be able to get services without having to go to resource room?

> By just having me sign a
> single paper giving them permission, he was taken out of the
> class for intensive small group phonics work 40 minutes 4
> times a week through the rest of first grade and all of
> second.

Are you saying he didn’t even have an IEP - but he got services?
>
> we expected to have to put him on an ed
> plan. We met with the team at school, and they said they
> could meet his needs through general ed. I had my doubts,
> but agreed to see how it worked.
>
> The classroom teacher said that she could handle most parts
> of what he needed in the classroom. She didn’t want him
> pulled out because she was afraid it would add to his
> anxiety. But she said she did need help with him during
> written language work to keep him on task. They had an aide
> assigned to his class room to help during these times, and
> brought both the OT and a SPED teacher in on a consult
> basis. All through general ed, without even a 504 plan.

It sounds like your son did great - and that’s the important thing. But it also sounds like he was getting special ed services - just delivered in the regular ed classroom. I’d be surprised if he did not have an IEP -an aide, an OT and a special ed teacher on a consult basis would equal an IEP in most places that I know!

…

Mary wrote:

> I think another poster noted that special education is not a
> placement. You must then be able to get services without
> having to go to resource room?

I think I worte that. It is certainly true. My older NLD son was serviced completely in the classroom through 4th grade. (He has been on an IEP since kindergarten) As the demands have increased, so has his need for resource time, or as they call it in our district at the middle school level, “Academic Support”.

> > By just having me sign a
> > single paper giving them permission, he was taken out of the
> > class for intensive small group phonics work 40 minutes 4
> > times a week through the rest of first grade and all of
> > second.
>
> Are you saying he didn’t even have an IEP - but he got
> services?

Yes. Our school system has a long-standing program of intensive phonics based reading remediation for any child who needs it as part of general ed in 1st-3rd grades. This is NOT a SPED function. If a child is on an IEP, they are automatically NOT in this program, though of course many of the techniques used would still be the same.

I think this is good. It means that very few kids in our district get labeled LD or put on an ed plan due to what Shay calls “dysteachia”.

> It sounds like your son did great - and that’s the important
> thing. But it also sounds like he was getting special ed
> services - just delivered in the regular ed classroom. I’d
> be surprised if he did not have an IEP -an aide, an OT and a
> special ed teacher on a consult basis would equal an IEP in
> most places that I know!

He is absolutely NOT on an ed plan. Remember, I’m not a “novice” parent. I have another kiddo who has been in SPED since kindergarten. I know how SPED works, and have helped write 6 IEP’s for him at this point. I know what an IEP is, and how it works. I also use an educational advocate.

As I said, I have my doubts whether this will work with a less excellent teacher, but for this year it IS working, so there’s not much sense fighting them about a formalized ed plan. If things DON’T work as well down the road, you can bet your bottom dollar that I will be on their case about an ed plan.

Karen

well naturally accomodations are to level the field. I am not saying that they should be given more. i think that some kids may milk the system, but the majoity of the kids that i have worked with definitly need their accomodations.

well naturally accomodations are to level the field. I am not saying that they should be given more. i think that some kids may milk the system, but the majoity of the kids that i have worked with definitly need their accomodations.

If you level the field, and the child’s ‘abilities’ are utilized, and the child scores the touch down, is it a diminished success? Does it count less? Aren’t there going to be students that soar when they are in the proper placement with the proper support? These same students would be goners with out them. They are not over supported or ovver accomodated, they get what they need and they excel. Should we take away some of the supports so they only produce mediocre results??

Boy, sounds like you are talking about my kid. Give him the help he needs, and he’s an A/B student. Without that amount of help he fails utterly. (and turns into an emotional basket case to boot) But then again, based on his IQ, you’d expect him to be an A/B student, particularly if you look at the amount of work he puts in.

He has proven, unfortunately, a couple of times how poorly he does with out these supports in place.

Karen

The posts I have made have been specifically toward LD not any of the other areas. Also, it isn’t that I don’t want to see all the kids succeed it is that there is a limit to some of what we can do. Again, speaking of students who are labeled LD and they truly are not. I would like to see regular education raise the bar and do some remediation as was mentioned on an earlier post of a child who was given additional support through the general education classroom to address decoding issues. Please also understand that high school is totally different than the lower elementary grades. Students become frustrated and scared, parents become frustrated and scared. They realize their formal education his coming to an end and they are not ready to leave - from an academic standpoint. I work with many wonderful parents and they try and support the school as we try and support them. Any negative posts toward parent issues have been isolated situations and the results have been my most unsuccessful students and the least prepared to leave and go to the next level. Services need to be withdrawn slowly at the secondary level so the student has the independent functioning skills to take care of themself and secure a future. Please understand that high school services are different and remediation has not been the focus but survival and securing a diploma has,. unfortunately, been what we have been aiming for. Many of my kids will get HS diplomas and still read at the 3rd grade level and have very poor academic skills to survive - not because the sped department wasn’t trying.

My daughter, as well. Gifted/LD. She receives A’s & B’s (except when doing time :0( ) with minor accoms. (extended time, use of manipulatives in Math)

Scored very well on FCAT with accoms. (extended time, small group, math portion read aloud, use of scribe)

Their suggestion, “Well, maybe b/c she’s doing “so well”, she doesn’t need the accommodations…”

My reply, “She’s doing ‘so well’ b/c I found her problems early, got her private intervention, and placed the correction accoms on her IEP and she’s never experienced failure”. “With her IQ, she should be sitting with her feet propped up, sleeping 1/2way through the class and making A’s & B’s. Instead, she words very hard for every grade and spends ALOT of time studying, listening to books on tape and working on homework” You will NOT remove her accoms and allow her to fail just to “prove” she needs them. Go look at her EVALUATION (I have a new private one done EVERY year) - that proves she needs the accommodations”.

Ended the discussion. Can you tell this pushed my “button”?! :-)

Went to a COPAA meeting this past weekend. It mentioned SPECIFICALLY austism/Aspargers.

Mentioned transition

Suggestions:

1) Make sure the voc rehab folks are there;
2) In cases of LD/Aspargers, suggestion of responsibility of taking student around college campus in advance to “show him/her around” (in case of problems with novel situations like my daughters)
3) There were several others - don’t have my notes handy.

Basically it was saying just b/c they are going out the door of H/S doesn’t mean responsibility ends. Voc rehab and HS should work hand-in-hand to secure jobs, and needs up to the age of 21 (22 in Florida).

A sad reality in my state is that Voc. Rehab has had such deep funding cuts that we no longer can add any new cases. Glad I put those who could benefit from their services on their caseload years ago. Additionally, those already signed up for Voc services are getting counseling but not real $$$ items. I don’t think the cuts have even begun to occur.

The sad part is that if they would fund special ed correctly MANY (not all) kids would succeed and the government could try to spend the money early not late. Hate to use a religious explanation, but that’s kind of like not letting kids have the 10 Commandments in school, yet giving out Bibles in prison, eh?