Can someone help me?

Six years old, in kindergarten and STILL making noises, etc. That’s terrible. What that boy needs is a couple of years military service. The army will knock the fun and games out of his head!

This message is not meant seriously but I hope that it serves as a wake up call. Six year olds making noise, moving around and generally acting like children are NORMAL. Six year olds who sit still, listen to everything the teacher says and strive are ‘needy”.

Find a real teacher. The one you described is a looney.

BTW, when I was eight, the teacher moved me beside her, facing the wall. I recommend this for distracted, garrulous, eight year olds.

Thanks Brian. I’m not saying he’s not rambunctious, because he is way hyper when I pick him up, but he’s fine when I drop him off. And he’s also fine when I take him to the grocery store.

Personally, I think he’s bored with the work. He learns better doing things, not filling out worksheets. He likes a little fun to go with his work, you know? And I think the teacher has already decided for herself that he does have ADHD. I can see it coming for my younger guy too. I raised my kids to ask questions and not live by the rules *all* of the time… bad mommy huh? :wink:

Is he having any problems with learning his alphabet and numbers? Is he learning to write okay? Does he have any speech problems? If he is having problems with any of this, you might be concerned and consider an evaluation. These could be early signs of LD or ADHD. Is there any family history of LD or ADHD? How about family history of high IQ? Sometimes really smart kids act out in school because of boredom. Kids with undiagnosed LD also may act out at school but not at home because at home they are not having to do things that are hard for them to manage like write or learn to read.

He knows his alphabet, numbers and can add some single digits. His handwriting is average, his speech is very good, I think. His S’s are more like a -th sound. He is an intelligent boy, but he’s very sensitive and does have some sensory issues. He is just getting to the point where he enjoys getting wet, for example. He won’t walk on grass with sandals on because his toes might get wet. He was already evaluated for SI, but it was a quick eval. and they supposedly thought that he was normal.

I’m not sure about the LD. I guess it’s possible…Can a child psych. diagnose all of these things?

I think my 4 yo is the one who got the high IQ. He’s being eval’ed in Dec.

I personally think that diagnosing children ADHD in kindergarten is a little unfair. I mean geez, it is thier first year at school and like Brian said, he sounds normal to me. especially if he has been at home the whole time before school. It being so close to the beginning of the year, I would say that the teacher needs to find some positive reinforcement and work with him. Also, consider what he is drinking at school. With my kids, when I quit letting them drink the strawberry or chocolate milk at breakfast and lunch at school, they did 60 -70% better. If he is not having breakfast at school, see if if there is a difference in his afternoons than in his mornings. If he is having allegies, I would remove the milk products all together for a while. If you are concerned about calcium intake you can always supplement but there is a lot of calcium in our food anyway especially vegetables. Keep us posted.
Sandy

Whats really unfair is letting the question go unexamined rather than getting the child evaluated and seeing what REALLY is going on. If it is ADHD then waiting to get help is a bad, bad move. It will make things worse for the kid. I dont mean meds either because k is pretty young for that. There are lots of things that arent med that will help a kid w/ADHD and we shouldn’t be so afraid of the diagnosis that we dont do those things for him. W/no diagnosis he’s just a bad, lazy, naughty, you name it kid to his teachers or he’s a kid whose parents need to crack down. Unfair to every body. People should not be ashamed of this diagnosis. They should not be afraid to admit it as a possibility. Its a thing that happens in the world and its not the end of the world. there are some really positive things about it including the great parents who work hard to understand, help and accept their kids the way they come and make sure that they do there level best to get teachers, family and the world to do the same. That means teaching people what ADHD really is and really isnt not trying to cover it up or deny it. If you do that, it wont get better for anybody especially not the kid who has it. he might end up being ashamed of himself which is the worst thing of all. Get smart about ADHD and get other people smart about it. Thats the answer.

“There are lots of things that arent med that will help a kid w/ADHD and we shouldn’t be so afraid of the diagnosis that we dont do those things for him. W/no diagnosis he’s just a bad, lazy, naughty, you name it kid to his teachers or he’s a kid whose parents need to crack down.”

Who says anyone is AFRAID of the diagnosis?

I remember being that child described who didn’t get the diagnosis - bad, lazy, naughty. The thing was, I didn’t have ADHD, nor was I really bad, lazy or naughty. I was just a child with childish tendencies to daydream or jump around or talk or not pay attention. Good times…good times. Try to remember how you were as a child. Or how your brother or sister were.

The sad fact today is that there are few good teachers and too many labels to give out. One authority who is against the ADHD diagnosis system says that there is no symptom of the child in the “telltale” signs. The signs are all descriptions of how the “disorder” affects adults, esp teachers. He says that there has never been a child who complained of SUFFERING ADHD. By all accounts, they were all having a great time.

Now that I’m over 40, I miss being able to jump from a small height without a jarring feeling in my knee bones or pick something off the ground without letting out an involuntary “oooff”. A person only has a few years to play without rules. Let the children play while they can. If YOU, as a parent suspect something is wrong; that your child is in some way “behind the others”, then don’t deny it, get it checked out. If, however, a teacher claims that she/he “can’t handle that six year-old”, then seriously think about finding a real teacher. Six year-olds are a pushover for real teachers (and real parents.)

My son was diagnosed autistic, aspergers, a couple of other things, ADD, ADHD at various points in history. None of the labels ever did fit and the ADHD label doesn’t fit today. He is in sixth grade of a regular school, spontaneously does little gallops to and fro on occasion, has a little trouble getting his tongue around some of the words in his otherwise fluent Spanish and English and learns better visually than aurally.

What’s that called? Should I try for a new diagnosis until someone agrees to give him a new label? Or should we continue with his course of treatment to fix the things that appear to be not working properly and remain in “denial” as regards finding a label?

The best thing we ever did for my son was get him into a regular school (he was in a few special schools with severely physically and mentally challenged pupils). The last thing a child needs is a label or a special case to live up to.

Fix the broken bits of your otherwise normal, healthy child.

Brian - A million unlabelled (but punished) school sins disorder child.

Hi Jen. Brian gives good advice. I actually read that boys (not girls) need to move around in order to move. One thing you might try is to give him a “stress” ball. Apparently it helps them to pay attention, while their hand is working the ball. Good luck

I will talk to his teacher about the stress ball; maybe it would help him stay in his chair a little better.

I’m not afraid of the diagnosis…the diagnosis just doesn’t all fit my child.

Thanks Brian. I am also of the belief that kids should be kids for a little while longer before we expect them to get serious and study. Especially wiggly little boys…

I will have him eval’ed anyway even if it’s to prove everyone wrong. It’s not fair to say a child has ADD when he’s sitting a few feet away from his also rambunctious friend and they just “feed off of” one another…

I remember I once went to my son’s kindergarten because the teacher had a complaint that he wouldn’t do the “work”.

The teacher showed me, by way of an example, a picture of a 4 inch diameter basketball (a circle with two curved lines dividing it in three sections). She told me that my son refused to colour it (I’m guessing that the task involved using a lot of orange crayon). I commented that it looked like a boring thing to do and that perhaps if the subject was Batman, etc., my son would take more interest. The teacher then informed me that, “the world is not all Batman”.

I’m not a doctor but I can diagnose boredom in a six year old. The symptoms are a lack of attention and a certain degree of fidgeting (or hyperactivity). If the test for ADHD was getting through the Evening News report, they’d all fail.

It may not be convenient to move your child from his present school/teacher but a little investigation into that person’s creativity level may help ease your fears about your son.

Wouldn’t it be great if we could all blame our bad job performance on a person who generally has no opportunity to defend himself?

Anyway, I’m glad to hear that your son is not NORMAL. Have you noticed how disfunctional those children become when they grow up?

I have a similar story about coloring and neatness…one of his papers came home perfectly colored in, a little out of the lines, but he did follow directions. I think it was the word ‘Orange’. At the top she had written Please color neatly. That really annoyed me, because if that had been a cool picture of an astronaut or something, that picture would have been absolutely perfect. What kid wants to color the word Orange, anyway. Hey, I do see the point that she was trying to get them to recognize the word, and he did, but don’t criticize for sloppiness.

On a side note, he brought home a picture of an astronaut, perfectly colored in the lines, and very detailed.

Beccasmommy, Just wandering about that picture of the astronaut. Was there any words of praise on that picture from the teacher?

No, nothing was said about it. I think maybe this is the reason why the sloppiness bothers her; because he’s able to do better? But she should consider that maybe he wasn’t interested in it.

That appears to be the trouble. Teachers attempting to instill knowledge instead of encouraging learning. The idea of that lesson was to connect the colour orange with the word “orange”. What may have been taught, however, was that colouring the word “orange” with an orange crayon was somehow still wrong.

All children have gifts. Teachers should be trying to identify and encourage those areas, not stifling them with “keep them quiet” exercises in compliance.

Good luck! From your brief description it sounds like he may be adhd. He also maybe gifted and just board. I have a nephew who is gifted and he is hyper. He is in the magnet school program and is in acting classes. At age 7 he was reading stories to sixth graders because he did such a good impression of the characters. on the otherhand he maybe like my son ADHD. My son is very smart. He just cannot focus. He is extremely hyper as well. The best advice I can give you now is read as much as you can about ADHD.

You know, I taught in elementary for years. I visited kindergarten and first grade often. I cannot agree with Brian that children disruptively shouting out, making noises during class at inappropriate times is normal age-appropriate behavior. Contrary to what Brian believes, most youngsters in K and first grade can sit down for reasonably calculated directed lessons, whole class or small group, and attend without calling out disruptions. Most can sit on the rug, inside their square and keep their hands and feet to themselves, listen and respond appropriately the bulk of the time. The ones who are excessively squirmy and who disrupt are few and they are immediately noticeable.

Why he behaves in this way, I cannot state. ADHD is always a possiblity. I’ll also confess to you that most kiddoes, even when they are bored, maintain a modicum of appropriateness of behavior. However, I don’t like to too quickly jump to the conclusion that the child should be evaluated for ADHD, I generally like to watch the child into the next year, a new teacher and see what happens.

Anitya- Thanks for your reply. Sometimes I do feel like there is something going on with him, sometimes I think it has to do with his teacher. Especially when I get notes home that his work was sloppy that day, but when I look at the papers, there’s nothing wrong with them. Maybe he wasn’t particularly interested in doing it. ?? I don’t know.

I was actually going to have him eval’ed but my ins. co. informed me that only counseling is covered. No testing. So i guess we will be waiting until ge goes to first grade and the school district can do it. (He is in Private K right now.) They said testing can cost up to a couple thousand dollars depending on what they do! :shock: No way I can afford that…

Jen,

It sounds like there may be something terribly right with your son.

How sad that there exist people, unashamed to call themselves “teachers” and unashamed to publicly defend a “teaching” system that would encourage the following:

“…most youngsters in K and first grade… can sit on the rug, inside their square and keep their hands and feet to themselves, listen and respond appropriately the bulk of the time.”

INSIDE THEIR SQUARE!!

Where would we be today if Galileo, Mozart, Edison, Gandhi and Einstein, etc., had remained inside their squares? Am I correct in surmising that children who refuse to sit inside their squares later think outside the box?

Your son may be a genius destined for greatness and Anitya would have him sit on a rug, inside his square, remain quiet, and keep himself to himself. That’s pretty sad and definitely dangerous although a whole lot less work for her. Because he won’t comply with his “teacher’s” easy-life plan he is branded a troublemaker and given letters to bring home detailing non-existent crimes.

The advice I’d give to “teachers” who think like Anitya would be to identify the children who are content to sit inside their squares and earmark them for mediocrity and a cubicled life.

The advice I’d give to you, Jen, is to identify your son’s genius and encourage it at all costs. If you turn out to be mistaken, I’m sure there will be plenty of cubicles willing to house him.

“The ones who are excessively squirmy and who disrupt are few and they are immediately noticeable.”

I pray that your son grows up to be noticeable.

Brian

Further reading: “Don’t Trample On The Genius”
http://www3.sympatico.ca/wfranke/Genius.html

I wonder how much more the Einsteins, Mozarts, Edisons, Galileos, etc., of the world could have accomplished if their early years hadn’t been filled with turmoil and their true gifts could have been recognized? ADHD is neither a badge of honor nor a sign of genius. It is a real neurological condition that intereferes with a person’s expression of his true gifts and, when undiagnosed and untreated often leads to badges of infamy rather than honor. One does not suppress genius when one offers help and support to a child exhibiting signs of ADHD. That suppression is much more likely to occur when one makes ignores, denies, or makes excuses for behaviors that indicate the presence of ADHD. When a child usually can’t do the things that his peers usually can do, there is a problem. Taking a head in the sand approach won’t really help that problem. The ostrich with his head in the sand might feel better, but while he is not looking, the hyena will be gobbling up his chick.

“I wonder how much more the Einsteins, Mozarts, Edisons, Galileos, etc., of the world could have accomplished if their early years hadn’t been filled with turmoil and their true gifts could have been recognized?”

Yeah, that’s the problem, Einstein, Mozart, Edison and Galileo didn’t contribute enough. This from the enigmatic “Guest”.

How many adults making similar paltry contributions to the world do you expect will emerge from the “sit inside your square” set?

I don’t have an ostrich’s view of ADHD but I do have an optimist’s view of a child’s behaviour. I don’t see an active child (“OVER-active” is a subjective judgement that has been accepted by a lazy and mediochre teaching community and parents who aren’t emotionally equipped to deal with real children) and immediately look for ways to negatively label and subsequently inhibit that activity.

When a child’s body is growing, it’s brain is also. The neuron pathways will grow to meet demand. If demand is stifled, new pathways production will cease.

I’m 100% sure that if scientists carried out an experiment whereby young rats were separated into two groups, one group being kept inside squares and the other left to playfully explore an interesting environment and given interesting stimuli, first, animal rights activists would protest the cruelty towards the first group and second, the second group would both become more intelligent and live longer.

That torture described by Anitya would have made an excellent punishment in 70’s South America.

Why is there no UBLD treatments for teachers?

(Unimaginative and Boring Lesson Disorder)

That last post was from me.

Brian

I think the real question is how many more geniuses have not been, and never will be known, by the world or by themselves, because they have not received the help they need. It is wonderful to celebrate the unique things that make your child dear to you and unique in all the world, but you don’t do him any good by blaming other people when that child has trouble doing things his peers do easily. Don’t blame anyone because the troubles are no one’s fault. Just acknowledge the problems, to yourself and to your child, and DO something about them, while reassuring the child and yourself that there is no shame in having these difficulties. If you are opposed to medication (as I’m sure you are) then look into alternative treatments, many of which are quite promising.

Guest wrote:

“I think the real question is how many more geniuses have not been, and never will be known, by the world or by themselves, because they have not received the help they need.”

That’s NOT the real question. That’s just speculation. If we want to indulge in speculation we could all do it - all day long! What if during the pregnancy this….and what if we had only fed him that…and blah, blah, blah.

I asserted that there have been very important contributions made to the world by people who were branded as problems, different, eccentric, wild, troublemakers, etc. That’s a fact. That gives us reason to believe that children exhibiting “abnormal” behaviour in school may yet contribute and that that “abnormality” may even be the reason for above-average contributions. I am saying that instead of drugging and negatively labeling our children, we, perhaps, should be celebrating them as the people who will drive progress in the future.

You wrote:

“Just acknowledge the problems, to yourself and to your child, and DO something about them…”

Why, and with what right, and backed by what evidence, do you feel justified in labelling the exhibition of ADHD symptoms as a “problem”. Those symptoms may be a problem for you. They may be a problem for a “teacher” who has no vocation. They may be a problem for any number of myopic and mediochre herd members. A “problem” is in the eye of the beholder and is usually seen as such through a selfish and hypocritical one. That’s why we had to develop the saying: “You got a problem with that?” Problems aren’t always evident to all beholders.

In order to come up with a standard for what is a global problem and what is not, we have to weigh the pros and cons of the entity in question. If Mozart indeed acted in the manner portrayed in the movie “Amadeus”, would we be justified in labelling him as a “problem” in light of an overall contribution probably only made possible by the same unique internal makeup that engendered the “problematic” behaviour?

continued….

cont…

I don’t think like you do, Guest; do I have a problem? Who I see as having a problem (again, a subjective judgement) are not the individuals of this world but the drones. The people who make things like “Big Brother” and advertising profitable. The sad and trudging wildebeest who quietly and desperately follow the herd from cradle to grave with creature comfort and survival uppermost in mind. The scant genius peppering history has always borne the burden of trailblazing for the likes of these and has always suffered under their small-minded, fear-fuelled discrimination. Individuality is a serious threat to a herd-like existence.

Perhaps all who exhibit symptoms of ADHD are not geniuses, nor even individual thinkers. However, if we are to find out the truth, abusing, drugging and “problem”-labelling the test subjects, won’t help.

Giving a child prescription drugs for the base reason of “shutting him up” is the modern day equivalent of slipping a little gin in the baby’s milk. If early gin may contribute to later alcoholism, what will early drugs do? If it was recommended to me that a little gin would help my son concentrate, I wouldn’t take that advice either.

As far as shame is concerned, it would appear to me that the teacher of the boy in thread question is doing her best not only to “reassure” the boy that there IS shame in acting a little different than his peers, but is also hell-bent on shaming the mother for having introduced such a “bad” boy into her class.

My son does NOT have a problem bigger than the one I would have if I suddenly found myself in rural China with no money and no access to communication with the “West”. In fact his “problem” is a lot smaller since he has already decided to meet the “Chinese” halfway and has developed tradeable skills.

I refuse to drug my son in order to keep him quiet.

He sees a microdose doctor, a neurologist and a psychotherapist on a regular basis in order to learn how to thrive in “China”.

I have never been ashamed of my son.

My son is not ashamed of himself and, in fact, has a very healthy self image. If I could only pick one word to describe him, that word would be “charismatic”.

We fully expect that he will soon be fluent in Chinese while maintaining his broad, individual accent and customs.

You got a problem with that?

have you ever thought of putting him on ridllen i was the same way before i started to take ridllen trust me it will help. :D [/url][/list][/list][/code][/quote][/u][/i]

Brian,

I love your attitude! You have a very special child.

Let us know when your son’s first comic book is published. I want a copy!

–- Steve

Would there be 5 mothers who’d volunteer to act as aides in the classroom so the teacher would have some help? One mother every morning?

If nothing else, the mothers could help out xeroxing etc. but ideally they’d be in the classroom helping with the children. Even with a class as small as 11, 4 ‘needy’ children can be a great deal to manage.

If your son finds all the sitting still and the worksheets hard, he will get ‘hyper’. Children can fall apart a bit and act out and act up when the demands made on them are too hard. While I’d prefer a different kind of kindergarten and a different kind of kindergarten teacher that your son’s seems to be, maybe take him over some worksheets in the evening to build his confidence in dealing with them.

I hope for his sake it’s a half-day kindergarten.
Good luck.

[quote=”beccasmommy”]I have a son who is 6, and is in Kindergarten. He has a lot of trouble sitting still, and sometimes disrupts his classmates making noises and such. He is in a class of 11, and there are 3 other ‘needy’ children, who he happens to like and play with.

His teacher doesn’t know what to do with him. She has rearranged the room so that he is in the front facing her, and will go over the directions with him again if he wasn’t paying attention. He has had his hearing checked and it was normal. He also has allergies and we are trying to address that.

She has told me that she doesn’t know what else to do, and asked me if I had any ideas…which I don’t. He’s not as wild at home. Anyone have any suggestions? We are in the process of getting an appt. with a child Psych.[color=blue][/color]

Thanks in advance, Jen[/quote][code][list][list=][img][/img][url][quote][/quote][quote]

I have a 4 year old that has just been diagnosed with adhd and she has fitted him with a weighted vest. he has not recieved it yet but his OT says that it is suppose to relax him and calm him down. I would also say that if your son is not seeing an OT I would recommend it to you highly. There may be other problems there also, such as sensory problem as in my son[/quote][/url][/list][/list][/code]