Five months after I requested the district to test my son for CAPD (and I had to specify “central”), it was done one day without prior notification. That aside for the moment, she wrote he showed low affect, sat with his back to her most of the time, apppeared tense/anxious a,d sat rigidly. He appeared to try his best. Her report: Filtered words - standard score 13 Percentile rank 84; auditory figure ground 13/84; competing words 8/25; competing sentences 9/37; composite - 104/61.
She also gave the CTOPP, not knowing he had this test in June at a private ed center. The biggest differences are blending words now 63 %tile vs 37; nonword repetition 84 vs 25 %tile, and on the composites, 100 vs 82 for phonological memory, moving him from poor to average.
He was on his ADHD meds at the time of both tesings. He wasa not anxious during the first testing.
SLP’s conclusion - he does not appear to have CAPD. As support , info frim his comprehensive school eval from 2 yaers ago is presented - how he’s relativey strong auditorily. His SS scores on on TAPS- R ranged from 79 - 104 percentile ranks of 8 - 61 (thinking and reasoniing) He was not on ADD meds at that time.
He hasn’t been evaluated by an audiologist. This all startedf (the auditory part) when a n ed therapist, a FF provider I might add, said he definitely had auditory processing probs. I’m not looking for more problems. I sthere anything to be made of this?
Thanks everyone. Pattim, are you around?
Re: C (SCAN) results
Yes, the SCAN-C is a screener and is also usually part of a full APD eval. I find the difference in the CTOPP results very interesting,too.
Anyway, schools generally do nto test for APD and there are usually only a few audiologists per state (if any) that specialize in APD. If I were you, I’d look on the site www.ncapd.org and find an audiologist who specializes in APD in your state and have that testing done yourself. You cannot make a judgement about APD from the SCAN-C, TAPS-R, and CTOPP. Although I will say that my child who does have APD did have some very low subtest scores on each of those tests while some scores were normal. But I would have the APD testing done privately to be sure you get a good, valid result. Schools really test for educational and speech-language issues. If you want to know if there is an underlying APD, it is best to seek that testing on your own, I think.
Janis
Re: C (SCAN) results
Janis, what made you originally test your child for APD? My request was based on an ed therapist’s opinion.
Patti - TAPS-R scores from 2 yrs ago, pres ADD meds - SS and %tile ranks:
Auditory number memory forward 79/8
Auditory number memory reversed 91/27
Auditory sentence memory 86/18
auditory word memory 80/9
auditory interpretation of directions 97/42
auditory processing (thinking and reasoning) 104/61
I’m not looking for more problems, and don’t know if this is an area to pursue now. I also don’t know if the CTOPP differences can just happen to be the day of the week he was tested.
ok I see a pattern
Do you notice the things that require the most attention and memory are the ones he falls apart on? This tells me his problems are more attentional that APD. But ironically he did better on the reversal of numbers than the numbers forward. Maybe he thought that was more of a game and intriguing.
The sentence memory he gets points for repeating the sentences verbatim. You can use context to get some of those sentences. But in regards to the audtiory number memory and auditory word memory those take a lot more attention.
CAPD
yES - YOU ARE RIGHT ON ThE MARK. That’s why I don’t know if it’s worth putting him through more testing for APD. He’s getting accommodations in school already, many of which are the same ones he’d need. I spoke to an SLP in our HMO who was going to test my son before school did it and the accommodations she said they recommend for CAPD sound like what’s in place for him.
It’s the CTOPP score differences between the 3 month apart testings I’m most curious about.
it could be a practice effect
Or he is starting to put it all together due to the remediation you did this summer. Those parts of the CTOPP are not hard…You listen to a tape and you repeat it back. No biggy…
capd
Id love to be qble to show the little bit of LMB this summer may be getting things moving. Our IEP is in a few weeks and I’m asking the district to pay for LMB sessions after school. (paid my consultation fee to an advocate today) If only it translated to improved reading!
Re: C (SCAN) results
I’d be very curious to hear if you get school-paid LMB!
My child very early could not remember all the words to little songs and prayers unlike our other kids. I knew her expressive language was not where it should be. I had her screened at 3 1/2 and they tested her at 4. It turned out that her receptive language delay was greater than the expressive, so that is when it occured to me that it was likely auditory processing. When she was six, I took her for that testing just because I wanted to know.
But I really can’t say if those TAPS-R scores can be attributed mainly to ADD or not. For the same subtests, my child’s scores were: 81, 101, 84, 91, 82, 88. And she is not ADD. But she does have an extremely low score on the CTOPP on phonological memory (73, 3rd %ile), so it is likely a working memory issue to some degree.
I will say that I think some APD kids are misdiagnosed ADD, by the way.
Janis
ctopp
Just wanted to let you know that I spoke with the developers of the CTOPP and I was told that the areas in which my son showed improvement certainly could be attributed to the brief LMB intervention he had! I don’t know if it’s true, but it would be nice. Now if only it transfers to actual reading!
IEP UPDATE
i WROTE A LONG MESSAGE YESTERDAY WHICH GOT LOST. iN SUMMARY, i ASKED FOR lmb FOR MY SON WHO DID NOT PROGRESS IN 2 YEARS USING oPEN cOURT AT SCHOOL (Sorry for the caps) The current RSP couldn’t physically be a t the meeting - turns out she’s pregnant and the spec ed coord had taken radioiodine treatment 2 days earlier. She was hooked in by phone. The person who did my son’s CAPD testing months late left the meeting at some point. Ignored that he had some LMB this summer and said she would not have administered CTOPP if she knew he had had it recently. Another district person was there as well (LRE, formerly program specialists). Upshot is, the district apparently classifies LMB along with other programs only for those with auditory processing deficit labels. My son’s written disability is is visual processing. So the CAPD person will be calling me (i found out later) to tell me why they say no to LMB. The RSP, who was just hired in June, is using Wilson with my son but she’s gone in a few mo. You know they’ll put in someone with emergency credential and no specialized training. At the interview the principal said she would pay for LMB training from her own budget and candidate was happy - but now she’s not interested. I faxed the iep to an advocate I’ve spoken with but she’s been out of town and I’m supposed tro sign this thing with my comments. AIming to keep him at a reading level 2 years behind isn’t ok.
DOCUMENT DOCUMENT DOCUMENT
You want to send a ‘letter of understanding’ to the principal and head of sped and anybody else with authority that just happens to include this comedy of errors that you get to bear the brunt of.
Hoepfully somebody with a legal-minded eye will say “oh, dear, she’s documenting this mess, we could be in trouble” and will read the part where you say you are delighted that there is a teacher trained in a multisensory, structured reading program (Wilson) working with your child but you are concerned that this necessary intervention will not be continuied when she leaves. (Also address the frequency & intensity — is Wilson happening every day?) I would even mention that the school has, despite some procedural blunders (the CTOPP thing), done a commendable job at figuring out the child’s needs (my guess is they won’t do LMB because they are doing Wilson — as far as the legal stuff goes it is a similar enough method they are “meeting the need for a multisensory structured intensive program.) — you may remind them that intensity and frequency are critical parts of it so a substitute tryng to squeeze a little in will not meet your child’s needs and that if they will be unable to meet your child’s needs, you would like to meet with them at this time to discuss how to arrange it.
WHether I’d actually *say* “private placement” would depend on many things (including the most obvious — whether there are good options in that realm).
Re: C (SCAN) results
Amy,
Of course, Sue is correct that you cannot ask for a specific program. As she said, Wilson and Lindamood Bell are in the same category. What I would insist on is that the new teacher be trained in one of the multi-sensory structured reading methods. If they choose Lindamood Bell, then they should train in both LiPS and Seeing Stars. The LMB clinics do not use LiPS alone.
You mention visual processing problems. Has your child had a developmental vision exam? Problems in this area will generally hinder progress in reading even if phonemic awareness is improved. Here is a link to learn more about it and find an optometrist who is certified to do this type of exam.
www.covd.org
Janis
V.T,
Hi Janis. Yes, my son has had vision therapy and when the current IEP goes through he will be getting 8 more sessions (many months late , but…) What I am losing sleep over is what to write on parent comments. The advocate unfortunately is really hard to get hold of and the last conversation was to ask for LMB at a center that is contracted witrh the school district and where I sent my son this summer. It was a combo of LIPS and SS. I want him to have proper remediation and they owe him because of all the time it has not been provided. I also don’t want to talk to the snotty CAPD tester.
who was the advocate?
Was it one of the Russell’s? I would also try to do Read Naturally to help him with reading fluency. Wilson is a good program and it sounds like you are going to have your work cut out for you to fight with them.
testing
The optometric group is Pozil/Brodney (Century City Optometrics). Pozil is one of the early VT guys. The SLP was Sara Greenberg.
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Ok…what was the lowest score on the TAPS-R?
He could be one of those kids who appeared to have both CAPD/ADD but in reality it was ADD. Meds really help kids who ADD and it does help a child with CAPD to focus better.
What about the audiologist exam? You haven’t had that done yet? Just the C-SCAN and the CTOPP…I would definitely have a battery by an Audiologst before I ruled out CAPD. The continuous performance test would help pinpoint some of the attentional issues….and there are more things that the audiologist can do vs. the SLP. I was thinking that the C-SCAN was more of a screener but I might be wrong…I will check with my friend the audiologist on Thursday when I go into her office.