Math excellent, reading poor. How do I help?

You’re asking a good question. Your son has the innate math skills but doesn’t have the reading skills to enable him to do well in the top math group. His teacher saw that and moved him to the other group.

He/she should have called you before doing that, however. Now I’d call the teacher and share with him/her what you’ve shared with us. The question is - is there a way to help him accomodate for his weak reading skills while in math class? In the ideal world, he might have someone to read the problems to him. My own son had this same profile and I did read the problems to him at night and he did get extra time when he took tests so he had time to read the problems as slowly as he does. If you’ve got a good teacher, he/she might brainstorm with you a bit to see if there’s a way he could be in the top math group and still succeed.

If there’s just no way, then I’d let him be in the other math group but I’d do enrichment math with him at home so long as it feels fun to him and to you to do it. They do do algebra very young these days - and geometry too. Don’t call it solving for X - call it figuring out the missing number - and young children can then do simple algebra.

Good luck.

I agree — if there’s a way to get him back into the other class, do it.

Thanks for the input,

There was a week between the time my son was told he was being moved to the lower math group and the time it actually happened. I told the teacher I thought it was a mistake and asked if there was any way he could stay in the top math group. She doesn’t seem to be very accomodating and I’m trying to figure out how to get her to work with us.

She seems to think that my son is just lazy. I’ve been in the class a lot trying to get her to understand that my bright child can’t read well and works really slow. She’s having a difficult time believing it. But, I think she’s beginning to see the light. I told her we went to the library to get the book they were studying so my son could finish his language homework last week. She seemed surprised that we would do that because it is “so disruptive to the family routine.” It seemed to be a turning point. How much of one I don’t know yet. She did offer to help him with his language test after that.

If I ask to have my son moved back to the higher group, is it wrong to ask the teacher to let him bring home both math assignments and tests? I could help him do the reading on both. I can’t go to school and help him or I would offer to do that. (I have a 2-1/2 yr and 1 yr old and nobody to help out with childcare.) She knows about the young ones.

The other thing I’ve thought of is asking his teacher (also the top math group teacher) to make an extra copy of the worksheets for my son and letting him do them in the lower math group when he is finished with his work. I could correct them and help him with the concepts.

The lower math (they’ve divided the 4th grade into two math groups)group is working from the student math book and the higher math group is working on black lines (?) from a teacher’s workbook. There is quite a large difference between the difficulty of the material although the concepts being taught are the same.

Thanks for your help

Maja,
I had similar situation with my son. He was on an IEP at the time and I just frankly said to the resource teacher that I want her to assure that my son will be placed in advance math class (for forth grade). He was in the lowest math in 3rd grade and getting Bs. There were three groups while he was in third grade and he was assigned to the lowest one in Dec. of 3rd grade and I did not question this decision because I became aware of it when the children were already divided and I felt it was just easier to “let it be”; however, after that I requested the higher math placement for 4th grade.

My son read two grades below at that time and he is slow processor. There were times when he felt the extra practice lower math group had for timetable will help him, nevertheless, he managed in higher math with a final grade B- at time he needed to “retake” test when the teacher read to him the word problems, but in general he was doing OK. HOWEVER: he never learned division- I believe it was mostly the lack of constant practice- the curriculum moved from topic to topic and they will stop practicing basic skills while working on time for example.

Most of these problems were taken care of when he started with Saxon math while in 5th grade in a new school where there was constant practice for all skills, but I am not sure how would he have delt with 5th grade math had he stayed in his former school. Although he could “grasp” math concepts, he would lose them quickly as well unless constantly practiced until he reaches automaticity. Even then- he may forget something….
Ewa

Thanks for all your input. I really appreciate it. I talked to his teacher. She is basically not open to putting him back in the top (her) math class.

I wish I had asked and read your post earlier Ewa. Next year I am going to insist that my son be put in the higher math class. I agree that my son probably wouldn’t be worse off than he is now. Although, grades are starting to matter now. He never cared in the past. Maybe, its his age and the fact that most of the kids he looks up to are at the top of the class.

This year we are struggling. His teacher expects a lot and expects a fast pace. She is having them do a lot of writing. Something my son has never had to do in class. In the past most of the writing assignments were done at home. The teacher seems to be more willing to work with us on this. I’ll take what I can get. Thankfully, she is grading my son on content and not spelling. I’ve decided I’ll fight the writing battle at school and work on the math at home.

I talked to the math teacher of the lower class. I can’t decide if it is good or bad. The students do their daily math and then work ahead by doing what she calls ‘after math’. This is her way of letting the top students work on more difficult math. They work at their own pace. She doesn’t give homework because it stresses out the student’s parents too much. So, she says. Anyway, this seems to be a pretty good set up for us to work on the more difficult math at home.

Do any of you know of any good math games, or books with math games for the skills taught in fourth grade math? My son love to play math games and most of the ones I’ve run across cover up to 3rd grade.

Marilyn Burns!

Check out her books on various and sundry things mathematical… though it is possible they are too basic, I don’t think they all are. And if he is more visual-spatial than a symbolic thinker, then slip him some of the easier ones as they will be “fun math” stuff but help him make the connections between those ways of thinking.

The fortunate thing about math is, *IF* (big big if) he is having fun with it and enjoying it, then he can learn a LOT from “basic” stuff. Kids who like math explore and find patterns that the overwhelming majority of people sweating over grades are too swamped to see.

I am taking a math class in college for my teaching credential, It has been a real trip because it is how to teach math through discovery and not using memorized algorithms…I have been having a blast and Math Matters isn’ty by marilyn burns but it is one book we have been using and it has lots of creative ways to teach basics.. Thinking Mathematically is one that really shows the way that kids think about math…… My teacher is definitly thinking outside of the box…She gives us all kinds of hands on stuff to do and we take them to our classes and do them with our students.

One rather huge issue, however, with all the wonderful “discovery” teaching is that there’s a tendency for adult reasoning and discovery skills to be assumed. Another potential pitfall is not realizing that once one of those cool mathematical tidbits has been discovered, it takes (for most students) a fair amount of old fashioned practice with using that discovered pattern or skill for it to be appreciated.
However, it would be amazing and wonderful if a few more folks could survive elementary math teaching with the idea that discovering things about numbers was fun.

If I ask to have my son moved back to the higher group, is it wrong to ask the teacher to let him bring home both math assignments and tests?

No it’s not wrong but I’m not sure I get the logic of it. No child needs to do double homework and if he understands the harder math, what would be the purpose in doing the lower math?

I like your other idea better. If she simply will not put him back in the top math group, ask that he be allowed to have the work sheets of the top group to work on in the lower group when he is done with the easier work. That way he gets exposure to the harder math he’s capable of and it leaves the door of possibility open for him to return to the top math group as he keeps up with their work.

Good luck.

The other thing I’ve thought of is asking his teacher (also the top math group teacher) to make an extra copy of the worksheets for my son and letting him do them in the lower math group when he is finished with his work. I could correct them and help him with the concepts.

Thanks for the name of Marilyn Burns. I’ll see if I can find a copy of her books. I’ve looked at Peggy Kaye’s book, Games for Math and it is for lower grades. I found a book in a catalog called Number Jugglers by Ruth Ball Alexander. Does anyone know anything about it? I don’t want to buy it and find out it is worthless.

I think you have a good idea Sara. Parent teacher conferences are next week. I think I’ll talk to his teacher and see if we can do this. It makes the most sense. Especially, since the top math group only works on photocopied work sheets. They don’t use the math book. Their assignments come from a math book that only provides blacklines for photo copying. Knowing his teacher I will have to pay to have the photocopies of the worksheets made. I may even have to make them myself. Its a small sacrifice though.

His teacher is a little funny. One day I took his language work book to him because I had taken it out of his back pack to look at how he was doing and forgot to put it back. (She doesn’t let them tear the papers out and bring them home so I have no way of monitoring what is happening short of going in and looking at the book.) As a result, he forgot it. I took it to the teacher and she said she wasn’t sure he should take it home anymore. He might loose it. Then we would have to make a photo copy of the entire book for him to work on the remainder of the year. I told her that was a risk I was willing to take if that is what was required for him to be able to finish his work. I could tell she didn’t like that but couldn’t say anything since I told her I would assume the risk of having to photocopy the book.

Lady sounds just a tad on the edge to me!

_Even =if =she w=a===n===t===––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––-

Okay, kitty cat, off the other keyboard :)

Even if she wanted to copy the thing, I’m sure her time could be better spent.
However, she’s probably *very* organized and he may learn some good strategies from her.