repeating 2nd grade good thing or bad?

I would allow testing, but make sure that the testing they do will actually diagnose the learning difficulties your child has. It is to early in the year to make a decision, but if you are 9 weeks into the year and they are already talking about it, I think something is wrong. Ask for an IEP meeting. Give them another 3 weeks and if they are not addressing your childs needs call for another one! Would your insurance company cover a COMPLETE neurological testing for identifying more specifically than the school can do? What is your childs IQ? If it is in the normal range, than the school needs to find your childs learning mode and direct instruction in that fashion.

Very few of the children I see retained, ever graduate (and I mean retention in lower elementary). I think it works in a family who supports their children 120%. Think of an 18/19 year old man who may very well have had a less than ideal reflection of his school experience. Can he be easily convinced to stay in school?

Hi

His test were done back in the summer of kindergarden and these are the test they did and the scores.

Wechsler Preschool and Primary Scale of Intelligence
Wechsler Individual Achievement 2nd edition
Intermediate Visual and Auditory Continuous Performance Test
WRAML
Behavioral Assessement Parent and Teacher
Wepman test of Auditory Discrimination

Verbal IQ 90
Performance IQ 100
Full Scale IQ 94

His scores on the subtest were Visual Memory 72 Verbal Memory 77 Learning Index 84 general Memory 71

I would guess that his scores maybe higher now that he is older but I don’t know. I just don’t understand all of this. I am like a fish out of water! Everyone I talk to says somthing different. The school keeps telling me they know what is best they deal with this all the time. I am sorry but I don’t feel like they have anymore of an idea than I do.

Thanks Michele

How old is your child now? I would have him retested with the WISC III, an achievement test and ask how the school will teach him to read and write(specifics), and where(reg. class, part-time resource room, tutor, etc.). Retention almost never helps kids “catch up”…the research is quite clear that these are the kids who drop out of school etc.

I know how you feel, I was and thought the same thing when my son was just starting school. We became part of his learning team and kept his best intrust at hand. We had IEP’s and demanded the educators to work harder. At one time they just wanted to teach him how to fill out an application to work at Mcdonalds. We made sure that they did more. He’s a senior this year and is going to vocational training next year.
know your rights (the school will give you a copy of your rights) stay involved, and do everything possible for your child. don’t worry about holding him back, if anything it would be better now then later on.
good luck

HI

He is 7 years old. They are currently using Wilson because that is the only program his teachers says she knows. He is currently in a seculision class for all subjects except gym, art, music things like that. He is the only 2nd grader on a first grade level in there so she said she has to teach him some second grade reading because she just doesn’t have enough time for one on one. Also he isn’t required to read at this time because he isn’t ready. Well when is he going to be ready if they can’t work with him effectivly?

Michele

I think you were right to begin with, he should have repeated first grade in the new school while having outside reading therapy, hopefully, to catch him up. But since that did not happen, yes, I’d go ahead and have him tested again. My child’s IQ came up several points from age 6 to 8. So it is easier to get the LD classification now.

Retention only works when the family makes sure the child gets remediation during that year. No remediation and the child will always be behind and fit right in with those dismal drop-out rates for retained children. And of course, non-retained children will also drop-out with no remediation…it’s just that no one thnks about that! But most retained children do not have the benefit of knowledable parents like the ones here who will seek out the effective methods and either teach the child tehmslevs or else hire a competent tutor. That said, I think K and first are the best grades to repeat. First is where the majority of critical reading skills are taught.

But I am going to be blunt..do not count on the school to fix the reading problem. Find a tutor for him as soon as possible and maybe by the end of the year he can move on up.

Janis

Hi

Thanks for the input. I wanted to tell you that I took your advice a few weeks ago and bought the book reading reflex I thought the book was wonderful and I have started working at home with him using some of those ideas. I took the book to his teacher and she said she didn’t really have time to look through it very busy and that they would only be able to use Wilson. That would be fine with me if it was working. Is a teacher able to try other things like reading reflex or do they have to use only what the school board approves?

Thanks Michele

Oh I forgot

Looking at his scores from my other post what is your opinion I don’t know a good score from a bad one.

I’m with Janis on this (and quite a few other things). I would be a bit wary of the teacher “knowing Wilson”. Wilson is an effective program, imo not the best anymore but good. However, it does take a trained person, not merely a certified teacher (unless certified in Wilson but that’s a different story). I would ask if the teacher what training the teacher has had in Wilson. If she has had the three day overview that would be ok. If someone in the school had it and then gave it to her, not good enough.
I personally haven’t had the training, but I can tell from really studying the manual it is not something one can learn thru casual looking thru and that sort of thing.

—des

Michelle,

Good for you for buying Reading Reflex! And I agree with des, how successful Wilson will be has a lot to do with whether she has been trained. Also, and I have a vague recollection of saying this before, Wilson is really for upper elementary on up. Wilson does have a new K-2 program but it is really packaged for regular ed, so it is unlikely she has that.

As far as the scores go, the IQ was in the average range (which is 90-110). The other scores were certainly indicative of problems. However, I would retest as SAR, I think, suggested, because scores on a child that young are not the most reliable things in the world. My own child’s IQ score went up several points in two years (age 6 and 8) and I attribute it to maturity, not any special intervention.

As far as “could the teacher try Reading Reflex?” goes, that depends. In my district, special ed. teachers have a lot of latitude about what materials we use. No one has ever even checked to see what I use! In some districts, they may have set programs to use. But it sounds like you’ll have to do the Reading Reflex yourself judging from the teacher’s reaction.

Janis

If the teacher’s using Wilson andyou’re useing Reading REflex I think it’s a good combo — though of course any program is only as good as the teacher using it and yes, training is important for WIlson. What’s the teacher like?

This isn’t college. Why, exactly, do they want to retain him? Because they want another year of development before his All Powerful Test Scores affect their politics? One would hope not but it wouldn’t be the first time. If the reason they want to retain him is, basically, that he hasn’t made enough progress, I’d want to know why, given that he’s a kiddo of average intelligence. Do you know the subtest scores for the IQ test — were they fairly consistent or were there swings and dips?

I just had to say that I have NO idea why there is a smiley in my last post! I did not put it there unless I by coincidence typed the keys that made that face! It should have been the number 8 where the smiley is.

Janis

Hi

A few more questions.

If we let them hold him back next year and repeat 2nd. Is it a good idea to go with an inculsion class instead of seculsion which he is in now? Next year it would be the same teacher he has now. I really don’t like the seculsion class.

I have mentioned his scores so you get an idea of where he is at. We are also so disappointed with the whole special ed process that we are thinking about taking him out of it all together or maybe going on a monitoring status next year. Any ideas on that?

With alot of tutoring could he make it without sp ed?

To tell you the truth I really think he just goes and hangs out all day. I have mentioned before that all of his papers are A’s I just don’t see how. Someone is just feeding him the information to make there scores look good. How can I prove this?

Thanks
Michele

I think trying the regular class with home or private tutoring is a good idea if the special class teacher is not doing a good job. Put him on a consultation basis so you can have accommodations in the classroom. But do all you can to get him reading so that he can be successful in the regular class.

Janis

P.S It’s too early in the year to even be thinking about retaining him. He can have a lot of reading tutoring between now and next May.

I would NOT retain your child. I would send your child back to the general education classroom. Get an IEP in which your child is taken out for short 1-1 or small group instruction-remediation. If you have a valid reason why you want a specific program (like the one the present teacher is using isn’t working), make sure it is written in the IEP. This is one of the most important times in your childs education. If he gets lost now, it will be significantly harder to ge him caught up. 8)

HI

I would love it if they would put him back in a general class with modifications but they say he is at a 1st grade level and he is really in second grade. So they said it would be distracting and more than likley impossible to teach him at his pace with the other students. They are not teaching him anything at his pace in sp ed either. He is still the only one in there on a 1st grade level so she teaches him what the other 2 second graders are doing. You know the standard line I don’t have enough time, to many kids ect…. That is all I seem to hear from any of them.

I have looked for outside help and can find NOTHING in my area or even near it. I truly don’t know what to do. I just see him getting farther and farther behind to the point I don’t see them getting him in a reg. class with other 3rd graders. He will be lost.

Any ideas?

Thanks
Michele

Hi

I forgot to mention. You said have it stated in his IEP what they will use to teach him. I have zero options the only thing his sp ed teacher said she knows is Wilson. Never even heard of OG or the list of others I gave her. I don’t know anything about them either but I am not a teacher! She also is the one who said she doesn’t do well with phonics and may have to teach whole lang. NO WAY!

Michele

I hate to say it, but she doesn’t sound like a very good teacher! I find what best fits each child, and if I don’t know I FIND OUT! Your child is ONLY 1 years behind. My guess is that not all the children in second grade are ready for second grade.

Call your state agency for special education,and ask questions. Ask them where you can get an advocate. With any luck, you can have them attend the IEP meting that you demand to have in the next few weeks. Everyday is VITAL, and if your child is not getting the services needed, insist on it. There are state and federal procedures for filing a complaint, grievance. You should see how fast schools can comply when you call your state agency!
Good Luck and let me know how it goes. I would still INSIST on full inclusion, with short concentrated remediation with a reading specialist. Maybe the school has a reading specialist that the spec. ed teacher can consult. Does your school have Title I?

Hi

We do have Title 1 but the school won’t let him have help with the reading teacher because he has sp ed services. That is all they will allow him.

Michele

Me again

I think I have a problem today I post then remember somthing eles!

Do you think we should have him put in inclusion now or wait? Can you just change from seclusion to inclusion? What do you need to do? What class modifications should I ask for? Should he still be pulled to the sp ed teacher he has now for extra help or should he go to the reading specialist? Is everything done in his inclusion class with just modifications?

As you can tell I really need guidance.

Thanks again
Michele

Michelle,

Something is really unclear about that special ed. situation. The teacher says she uses Wilson but doesn’t like or use phonics??? That makes no sense because Wilson IS a structured phonics program.

I agree you need to find out if there are any knowledgable advocates in your area to help you with this. It is really hard for us to give you advice without talking to the teacher and understanding the whole situation.

But I will say that most title 1 reading teachers are unequipped to teach a child with a reading disorder anyway. You really need to get an outside tutor for that part.

Janis

Well the other thing is that she says she doesn’t know what OG is and says she teaches Wilson. I think she may have a Wilson set somewhere or the school does. That would not work.

Also as Janis says it is structured phonics. Any teacher that says that they are unable to do phonics, is that what she said, strange strange.

—des

I would do inclusion now. It doesn’t sound like your child is doing anything advantageous for most of the day in the spec. ed. classroom. Classroom modifications:
*preferential seating
*immediate feedback on all language arts activities
*maybe they could arrange an aide, high school student, vounteer to read with your child for 15 minutes per day under the guidance of the reading specialist.
*Meet with the spec. ed. teacher AND the reading specialist and between the three of you, you should be able to come up with a plan.
Your child is ONLY one year behind. With a loving caring parent, he should be caught up in no time. I would just leave him in the general ed. room for the bulk of the day, and removed ONLY when he is getting specific reading remediation. :D

Below is a definition of the Wilson Reading System and as you can see it clearly states that Wilson is O-G and phonics. The teacher hasn’t a clue. I thiink you should consider writing a letter of understanding to the school repeating for the record what you have been told. The purpose of the letter is to serve as documentation if you need to have it later. Also below I have listed a link to a page that has information on the two Parent Traning and Information Centers in your area. These centers get money to educate parents of children with disabilities. They might be able to refer you to tutors in your area.

http://www.ldonline.org/ld_indepth/reading/mssl_methods.html

“The Wilson Reading System is a 12-Step remedial reading and writing program for individuals with a language-based learning disability. This program is based on Orton-Gillingham philosophy and principles and current phonological coding research. It directly teaches the structure of words in the English language so that students master the coding system for reading and spelling. Unlike other programs that overwhelm the student with rules, the language system of English is presented in a very systematic and cumulative manner so that it is manageable. The Wilson Reading System specifically teaches strategies for decoding and spelling. However, from the beginning steps of the program, it includes oral expressive language development and comprehension. Visualization techniques are used for comprehension. ”

http://www.taalliance.org/Centers/region2.htm#VA

Hi

Well I have talked to the assistant principle and set up another meeting with her and the sp ed teacher for friday. After talking to the assistant principle I feel like she is really going to try and help. I was surprised that she asked me if I thought it was the program or the educator that was the problem. I have never been asked that by the school system they usually back the teacher 100% but she was really agreeing with me that things need to change.

Then today I picked him up and ran into his reg ed teacher who said she is very worried about him. That we need to do somthing now. That she had gone into his sp ed class and that she has seen the teacher teaching him the materials for second grade that they told her not to use with him yet. She was also concerned that to give the PALS testing that he scored a 4 on she had to use the preprimer list just for him to be able to take the test.

I know I am probably getting my hopes up to soon but it finally sounds like we may get somewhere.

If anyone has direct and to the point question that would be helpful for friday morning please let me know.

Thank you so much!

Michele

His new school made some judgments and some decisions about your child without knowing him. Now that they know him a bit, they want some testing done by their school’s people. I’d allow that and accept it as the price we must pay when we are new to the school.

But the greater problem is the long school year stretching ahead of him. How will he get through it? I’d be as concerned about that as anything else. The school is essentially telling you that second grade isn’t going at all well for him yet he has months of it to go.

If your son though is happy in his second grade classroom, I’d let him stay but if he’s not, I’d explore putting him back to 1st right away. Leaving friends either now or seeing friends move on to 3rd is hard but struggling with school work can be even harder.

And what will the school do for him right now? They should do something other than just decide to hold him back in the future. His needs deserve to be met now. They should not just allow him to struggle through the rest of this year.

Good luck.

My advice, for what its worth:
Go ahead and have testing. The kinds of info that comes from a kindergarten acheivement test is more readiness. As a school psychologist explained to me , a lot of tests were written and scores were scaled either for young kids or early elementary, therefore a K -1 child is either at the very upper limits of the test for young children, or at the very beginning of the tests for older kids, meaning you get a score that may not be accurate and you would want to repeat tests when they are a little older.

Ask for a good diagnostic reading test— ask them to please be able to report what his sight word skills are, what phonetic strategies he can use, what other reading strategies he uses.

Ask the district if they provided training in Wilson. My district bought the materials and balked at training us… bought some videos and sent one of us to someone who had taught it a lot but was not Wilson certified. I do think you can learn Wilson without trekking to Cambridge Mass and paying their fee, but the school district needs to invest some time in training. Don’t blame the teacher that she didnt have the time or money to train herself completely alone in the Wilson certification program.

Ask if they have heard of Explode the Code or Recipe for Reading, 2 Orton Gillingham programs designed for younger readers. I think its from Curriculum Associates or ETA

Ask if they have devised a way for the teacher to instruct your child at his level. Is there enough instructional time and materials for the various reading levels in the room?
Yes, the teacher has a responsibility to go find the right materials and find a way to fit it into the schedule, and not just how to keep on doing what has always been done with the rest of the kids because its familiar. The rest of the school team should be helping the teacher put a good program in place.
One thing in my years of special ed–- the people chairing the meetings are not the ones putting the IEP into effect… that would be me.. and they sometimes act like I can do everything, modify everything, I think they picture me like the Hindu god with 8 arms, able to instruct 4 lessons simultaneously- Dont get me wrong, I wind myself up at 8 am and teach teach teach till 3, but sometimes it is not possible to fit all the individualized instruction that someone else has written on all my kids IEPS. So, ask, does this district have the materials my child needs.. have they identified what these materials are, what reading instruction method is opitmal for him and do you have it or plan to get it? What changes in the instructional set up of his class room will be needed to put this plan into place… will more staff be needed or some change in scheduling done to allow time for this instruction? If they cant answer those questions they are not going to put a good program in place

sorry this is so long good luck

Hi Michelle,

By now your meeting has come and gone. I agree with the former posts

* Call the district office or county office of ed and find out how you can get an advocate. Not to scare the school, but to understand how to support your son.

*Learn what the IEP is about. That is probably why you WANT testing!! To have goals written based on assessment results. That way he will not be wasting his time with 2nd grade material.

*If he is social and can trace, then I would get him into reg. ed with pull-out reading services. Ask his teacher to provide worksheets with dotted lines for him to trace if he can’t write words yet. The font is called Primary Trainer and many computers have it. If the teacher balks, then ask for it be be written into the IEP accomdations page until he can write SOMETHING. That way he can still be working.

*He has a good IQ, be happy about that. Get a list of the DOLCH or district sight words - whatever they use. I made a slide show with them. First I typed each one in large font - 1 per page - landscape print and had the kid hold it in different areas - playground etc…upside down…different kids… you can do this with a camera and buy a slide projector on E Bay or do it in a computer - much cheaper. However the $100-(approx) spent on the projector and developing will not be wasted!! the kids like to push the switch to the next one. tell him the word them have him say it a few times WHILE LOOKING AT IT!!!! then move on, do about 10-15 words then re-read the mastered words with a few new ones.

*If you have the bucks and the inclination, I use the BARTON System. It is Orton Gillingham based - www.bartonreading.com At least read this site for information. This system is very easy to use. It takes the stress out of learning to read for the kids. It is multisensory with colored tiles, and has training videos.

I teach ruh bumbling, stumbling readers iesource3rd grade and the g and spelling y coputer is crashing

Keep reading to your son. This way kids learn what words are real, and they also learn sentence structure.

Also, read rhymes. Ask him questions about the stories. Keep fostering a love of literature.

In gen ed ask for books on tape to be on the accomodation page. They are in the library, it’s no big deal, they just need them available. later on you’ll need to ask for textbooks on tape. My struggling 4th grade readers use the text on tape and made honor roll! These kids can sometimes comprehend OK.

Find what your son is good at and foster it. If it’s true dyslexia and a brain wiring problem he may have a big strength in sports or art, even legos or patterns. You will be creating good study habits by having him work at home, as well as good quality time. Meet him where he is.

You are catcing this early. It’ll be OK. True LD kids often just end up behind all the kids in the next class if they get retained.

Good Luck!