LiPS without a net!

How exciting! Best of luck to you Des. :D

go thorugh the sequence in LiPS…have you already done the lip poppers, pb tongue tappers,td before you did the lip coolers f/v? He has to be solid on the consonants before you move him on….especially if he is that far behind…I trust Susan’s judgment as I have been trained by her in person..and I was trained in LMB by Phyllis Lindamood. You can e-mail me if you like…

patti

Yes, I am going thru the sequence in order and have decided on the horizontal path. I am strictly following suggestions as I have not enough experience to NOT follow them.

We have gotten as far as the lip coolers— but no further.

I think I will write you on this one, as I want to be sure not to go too fast. I’m encouraged by a bit of progress with this kid though.

—des

Patti, you are making me envious!

Janis

Yep! Me too! I think Susan Barton is an excellent teacher judging from the video tapes and my phone conversations. And Lindamood, well possibly the gold standard. :-)

Either you did this a LONG time ago or have a special tie in the rest of us don’t. :-)

Back to my student, seems to be doing fine. He remembered EVERYTHING from last time. Said mom was working with him also. Introduced one new “brother” (/th/ and noisy- voiced /th/). He apparently does learn well this way. Can do it receptively, expressively— give labels (remembering whole label name), explanation of labels (“my teeth bite on my lip and I blow out” for lip cooler); matches pix with letters; etc. We played the “diamond game” in the book and also let him play teacher where I’d make errors and he’d correct them.

This is a VERY sweet kid with a neat family so I am really happy that I can help him.

As for me, I’m getting more confident of the material and feel my “corrections” are getting more effective.

—des

This tempts me SO much to go to CA to take LiPS for the chance to have Phyllis Lindamood as the teacher.

Janis

Patti,

Just out of curiosity, where do you fly into when going to San Luis Obisbo?

Janis

Yep, I may take it in CA. As it looks it does not cost more to fly to CA than it does to fly to Colorado (you might think so, but you would be wrong). The big thing is the hotels are cheaper in Colorado. But I did kind of check in on San Obisbo. It is cheaper than, say, LA. And you can stay at Best Western down the block. And unless I am wrong, you fly into San Obisbo??
(LMB always stays in major huge hotels rated AAAA, though I noticed some change in that this time.)

Janis, after I make my cool million :-) do you want to go down there at the same time and be roomos. (Susan Barton is very good re: keeps roommate lists, so that if you are coming alone, you have can have a roommate, cuts a major expense. )

—des

Lol! Great idea, des! Let me know how you plan to make that cool million and I’ll make one, too!

Janis

Well though, seriously, I’m trying to get a small home equity loan. As for the cool million, well I doubt it at my rates (maybe if I were Lindamood or Bell :-)). But this is going very well, and I got another inquiry yesterday all on the basis of one ad I am running every other week. If I actually get this student (seem to NOT get one of 4 or so that are serious calls), I’ll be up to 11 sessions a week, so I’ll be able to pay back the loan. It was very nice today, I actually put in the bank more than I took out and I am on month three officially.

I think rooming with someone for one fo these would be a great way to cut costs, as one of the biggies is hotel, esp if you didn’t mind staying at a less costly one (like Best Western).

BTW, I think that’s another thing they should do here at Ld online: have that in my for sale, trade, etc section. Rides, room sharing for conventions and training.

—des

Hi gals..

I am so excited…I got a job I love!!! Yes…siree bob…It was so cool to go back where I had done one of my internships and everyone was so happy to see me, the students, principal, teachers, parents. My former mentor gave me a big hug and said, “Man am I glad to see you..my buddy is back…and we are going to have FUN!!!” She had been trying to cover 2 caseloads while the other SLP was out on leave…it was exausting… I am really grateful for this opportunity and working with the kids again is just wonderful!

For my LiPS/Seeing Stars training I only drove from from home to a hotel in Long Beach with Phyllis Lindamood and VV with Paul Worthington. It has been about 6 years now!! I can’t believe it..

Sharon of Education Station and I flew up to San Jose to get training from Susan Barton in her program about a year later. Susan was great..she is very gifted and talented at what she does and she is able to explain things to understanding for both parents and educators. She was a great help to me when I worked with my daughter and before I became an SLP.

Feel free to e-mail me if I can help you..

patti

That’s super news, Patti!!! You deserve a good job after that other fiasco.

I want to ask you, since you have had the very best of training, can you compare the two? Do you use them both? If you could only have either LMB or Barton, which would you choose?

Janis

I don’t think they are quite comparable, really. LMB is much much more intensive, and at least LiPS is for the most involved kids. You sure wouldn’t want to give that up, unless you just say wouldn’t want to take those kind of kids. Also there are some programs like SS (which is really for kids with poor visual memories) and V/V for poor comprehension, and there aren’t similar programs— perhaps the one out there for comprehension, name escapes me.

OTOH, Barton is for just your regular dyslexic kids. I think, if I remember Patti correctly, that the one she has (or has seen) is more a prototype than the actual version I have. It does pull in the OG, and also a bit of LiPS and even V/V or SS (as she uses visualization), and has more phonemic awareness than the average OG program (don’t know re; some of the newer ones) only have seen Wilson, OG and Spalding. One whole book is devoted to phonemic awareness. I think it is top-notch. One of my students went thru the first three levels of Wilson, and I just started her on book 1. She could not hear the /r/ , /l/, or /h/ in a blend. They just dont’ spend that much time in it in Wilson comparitively. I had her hearing those sounds in one session. The spelling rules are done using mnemomics so they don’t have to memorize. For example there is the “kiss the cat” rule that shows when you start the word with a “c” or with a “k”. Again my student internalized the rule in one session. So I think it’s a great program.
I think one of the things that makes the Barton program so strong is her training in the videos. I’m sure she is wonderful live. “Yessirree bob” just cracked me up. Barton gives three common words that end in one ‘s’ but don’t have the /z/ sound. And two of them are based on longer words. So is “yes” it’s based on the longer word “yessirree bob”. :-)

However, you wouldn’t want to do it with a more severe kid, like the boy I was talking about. There is a screening for Barton which tells who is too severe for it, so you know right up front. But I have used some of the things in Barton for the LiPS I am attempting. One of the things she stresses is keeping your mouth closed. Hard for me, the yackety one. :-)

BTW, I’m happy you are enjoying your new job as well. I gotta say I really really like this tutoring thing, and hope that, you, Janis, will be able to join us. :-) One suggestion I would have is to start buying some of your basic programs, as I think you have. This is a huge up front cost, and practically my only one.

—des

/h/ in a blend? Are you teaching hwether the weather is hwat you wish that my mother so often recited to me? (I noticed that our dictionaries no longer indicate the /h/ sound in the wh words… oh, sadness… what’s the world coming to… today the NY Times said that Joe Paterno’s “time had past [sic]” — aaargh!)

Ya you betcha, yessiree bob Patti… sock those pennies away… (which I am doing as well, since the federal govt. saw fit to fund our “academic development center” with a Title III grant that propelled me to full-time status tutoring :) :) — less time for the website… but health insurance is paid for…)

>[quote=”Sue”]/h/ in a blend? Are you teaching hwether the weather is hwat you wish that my mother so often recited to me? (I noticed that our

Nope, that was a mistake! Sorry. I meant /p/ I think. Can’t remember as it was one other sound besides /r/ and /l/. Besides that would be the digraph /wh/ I think, which Barton teaches. BTW, had a heck of time learning to say it right. Yikes.

>dictionaries no longer indicate the /h/ sound in the wh words… oh, sadness… what’s the world coming to… today the NY Times said that Joe

Yep, I noticed, Wilson makes a comment that most people do not say that diagraph as hw anymore.

>Ya you betcha, yessiree bob Patti… sock those pennies away… (which I am doing as well, since the federal govt. saw fit to fund our “academic development center” with a Title III grant that propelled me to full-time status tutoring :) :) — less time for the website… but health insurance is paid for…)[/quote]

I think that’s Janis, isn’t Patti a full-time tutor or something or other?? Yessiree bob. :-) Got insurance if you can call it that with AARP. Otherwise I would have nothing. NASE and some other groups are offering insurance, but I have been on anti-depressants and even though it is a teeny dose and not even for depression , it disqualifies me from any group plan like that.

—des

Hi Des,

I used to be an educational therapist/advocate while I was working my way through graduate school. I worked for a time as a substitute teacher. Now that I have my masters, my license and credentials I am now a full-time SLP. Right now I am working Per diem, and filling in for SLP’s on stress/maternity leave so I don’t get benefits. However, I do get the $$ to make up for the lack of benefits.. and my husband has benefits.

The h/w/wh is a trip on teaching to kids. LiPS goes through it but there is such a slight difference between white, whip, wine…to me it is splitting
hairs.. Time to make dinner..that job never ends…:-D

patti

Hi Patti,

Well I’d be interested if you agree with my comparison, contrasting of the two (LiPS and Barton or was it LMB and Barton?)?

Yes, I too am going nuts with it that /wh/. I have heard if you haven’t said a sound by a certain age, you might lose your ability to say it, and I am wondering if that just might the case here. I had a heck of a time. I tend to be able to say it better if I put the wh in front of a word. I also think it is splitting hairs. I had a LOT of trouble with Susan Barton saying that “people who aren’t speaking well” can’t remember the exact quote, don’t say the /wh/ if EVERYONE or nearly everyone says /wh/ as /w/ then it becomes /w/That’sd all there is to it. I’ve taken enough linguistics to get that.

I might see the reason to teach it given there are words that begin that way. It sure would help in spellling if you know hwat the word should theoretically sound like. I’d just as soon spell them hoo, wat, were (but that’s confusing), wen, wy :-)

—des

Who is one of my little “dyslexia” flags — for most of us, it intuitively belongs with those “question” words so of course it begins with wh… and it rhymes with “do.” Only if you have to think about it do you think “different beginning sound” than what, where, when or why… and if you haven’t learned about cow and now, then you’re rather likely to spell who h-o-w. (I had a tenth grader write “How Now Brown Cow” often to help him remember, and then , Who Do You Moo To?” to get that hammered in…. would have made a nice poster, I’m sure.)
Then there’s “once.” Try any of the logical phonetic spellings of *that* in your spell checker.

(and that was me, who wasn’t automatically logged in this time… but at least I’m not getting the 404 error pages any more!)

Phonetic spelling of “that”? I used to live in Chicago and we solved that one. It was “dat” of course, and there are also da Bulls (or used to be :-)), da mayor, who commonly talks about dem and dose. Or as one of my college teachers once said, if it became important: da mayor would learn to say them and those very quickly. ;-)

—des

Who is Susan Barton?

Susan Barton is a tutor out CA way who has produced materials for parents to use.
One of the ongoing challenges with O-G is that yes, it’s effective, but it’s not soemthign that you pick up the book and do, so some of us trained-in-it folks tend to get protective of it. (Some of us get a little overprotective — fixating on things like how to pronounce wh :)) You really *do* need to have better-than-the-average awareness of sound formation, though, to work well with it. Susan’s done a good job of making O-G accessible without ignoring the challenges.

(and that was me :-)) She’s discussed in other posts by folks who have worked with her and have lots of good things to say.

Susan has dealt with that problem as well (the problem of the tutor hearing the sounds). She has a tutor screening. The tutor screening judges the ability of the tutor to hear sounds, for example having the person put sounds together to make real words, and manipulate sounds for nonsense words. I suppose though she asks how you did on the screening you could buy it without it, but I am pretty sure the guarantee she makes won’t hold (she makes a 100% money back guarantee that tutors who pass the screening and students who pass the screening can return the system at any time if they are not satisfied).

Also this is good for people in my situation, where all the training is out of state, being in a back water state as I am. I can now tutor and be trained. She also offers certification and will then refer to you, as not everyone can or would want to work with their own child. She also does various workshops. The upfront cost of the system is HIGH, however, given that it includes very professionally done training tapes; and scripted lessons and reading materials, etc I think it is not so expensive, I mean I think you get what you pay for.

There is a free video with an explanation, a couple demos (very similar to the training tapes), and the screening (for tutor and trainer).

More info at www.bartonreading.com

I have no connection with them, and I am a pretty happy camper with her stuff.

—des

Thanks for the info! I was just curious because I noticed her name mentioned and then happened to see that she’s going to be speaking at a seminar in my area in about a week or so.

Well heck, I’d get yourself a ticket and a front row seat! Seriously!!
(Noone’s coming out here.)

Hey btw, I have a student on Barton— bk 3, and she is now getting Bs in reading! (I’ve worked with her since Sept.) She did have Wilson for 6 months, but had many gaps.

—des

Oh, I don’t need a ticket. It’s a free seminar and I suspect it won’t be too crowded so maybe I’ll even get a chance to speak with her, or ask some questions. By chance, since you use her material, are there any questions you’d like to ask?