How do you explain it?

I pretty much took the same approach as you, I tried to make a little deal as possible about the meds, but once we started counseling we had to talk more about the ADHD. My dd was in 3rd grade then, her major challenges were academically, and the counselor talked with her about what it was like having ADHD, how she saw herself differently from other kids (which she did in a major way). I also got a book at a seminar with a frog that talked about ADHD, for us, that book didn’t help, but there are some great books for kids available that others have used and found very helpful. The add warehouse probably has a listing of several that you can find online if interested. I think that the child needs to want to know about it also, or as in our case, needed to know (it’s a whole other story- but I’ll just say that those differences that she was so very aware of were having a huge impact on her- in a negative way). To this day, my dd is now in 9th grade, we still only talk about her ADHD in terms of what it is for her. When she has other questions, I answer them as best I can, but I try to keep as little emphasis on the ADHD, I don’t want it to become a part of who she is, it’s just something she has. Hope that makes sense. Good luck!

A great book for children the age of your daughter is Mel Levine’s “All Kinds of Minds.” It is written for school age kids and contains a series of stories about different kids who have differents kinds of LDs, including ADHD. It is extremely well-done and really reached my kids and made them feel that it was okay to learn differently.

For us, we had already been through explaining to her how she learned differently because she has dyslexia and CAPD. The LD school where she attends very much encourages talking openly and in a positive way about your child’s LD. About the only thing I remember talking to my daughter about ADHD is that she has trouble paying attention, focusing in class and finishing her work. I told her that taking medication would help with it. Her dr told her the same thing. I’ve not really explained anything further because I’m not sure I completely understand it myself! Whatever is said, it needs to be in a positive way (people who have ADHD are smart, bright, creative etc etc) and not done in a way where they think something is wrong with them. They are just different.

Suzi

Thanks Roxie, My daughter is also very much academically affected. She has some major problems with working and sequential memory. She also used to become very upset and lose control of herself. Then she would start sobbing and tell me that there is something wrong with her and she didn’t know why she was acting that way. It totally broke my heart. She sometimes still thinks there is something wrong with her but feels so much more in control of herself now. At what age did your daughter want to know more? Also, what/where is the add warehouse?

Like Suzi said, we keep things positive in nature. We focus on her and her achievements, not her meds or her condition. I just know a time is coming where I’ll have to explain more. I’m thinking this will be the type of thing where her questions will cue me into how much info she is ready for. I have explained it more in depth to my older child who is 12. She had the questions and wanted the answers. She had questions right from the beginning about why her sister was having such trouble reading, was it a permanent problem….etc. I included her somewhat in our steps along the way to find out what was going on. It has helped her to be empathetic and helpful and she has learned to never ever call her sister stupid. I did relate ad/hd to her asthma—a condition that she has that we control, take daily meds for, help her out as a family, but she has learned to live with.

I like the suggestion of books. I’ve checked out the adult books about ad/hd and ld at the library but not the children’s! I’m going to go see what they have. If not, I’m sure I could order through Borders or Barnes and Noble.

[quote=”JenM”]Thanks Roxie, My daughter is also very much academically affected. She has some major problems with working and sequential memory. She also used to become very upset and lose control of herself. Then she would start sobbing and tell me that there is something wrong with her and she didn’t know why she was acting that way. It totally broke my heart. She sometimes still thinks there is something wrong with her but feels so much more in control of herself now. At what age did your daughter want to know more? Also, what/where is the add warehouse?

Jen,
Your daughter sounds so much like mine, with the exception of diagnosable LD’s. My dd hated herself, literally. It started with her knowing that what came fairly easily to the majority of kids in her classes, seemed unreachable for her. She could learn, for the moment, but could seldom apply a concept, and it frustrated her to no end. She was sure she would never be able to learn. It is heart breaking to see your child struggle, and then to hate themself because of their struggle.
The online bookstore is: www.addwarehouse.com I usually look for books there and then see if I can get them cheaper elsewhere. Amazon is a good place for that.

“Like Suzi said, we keep things positive in nature. We focus on her and her achievements, not her meds or her condition. I just know a time is coming where I’ll have to explain more. I’m thinking this will be the type of thing where her questions will cue me into how much info she is ready for. ”

I agree with this. I have to say though, from our experience, watch her when you offer praise. I’m not sure where I went wrong, but my dd began to hate when I had, and have, positive things to say about her achievements. I think what she complained most about was my comparing where she was to what she had attained. She didn’t, and still doesn’t see it as something so great, it’s just what everybody else was already doing. I needed to remember that yesterday. Her biology teacher e-mailed me to let me know that she went from a 33% this quarter to 79%. She came home and I’m showing this to her telling her what a great job she did, she was completely lukewarm to me, didn’t even crack a smile. And sure enough, futher conversation led to her seeing me at “yelling” at her (I can honestly say I wasn’t raising my voice or angry in the least, just trying to encourage her further) and she somehow saw that I was dissappointed in her. Someday I’ll learn what to say and when to stop. I guess my point is, from my dd’s perspective, she’s not really doing anything great, and too my praise seems phony to her, or maybe it’s that she thinks that I am expecting less of her so when she performs as what she see’s as average standards and I praise her, it’s a slap in the face. (I’ll have to check this one out with her, maybe I’ve figured it out!)
Goodluck. I want to say also, it’s great that your 12 yr old has been receptive to it all and can be empathetic towards your dd. Having a sibling that has struggled has helped my other children to be empathetic towards others also.

I have explained it more in depth to my older child who is 12. She had the questions and wanted the answers. She had questions right from the beginning about why her sister was having such trouble reading, was it a permanent problem….etc. I included her somewhat in our steps along the way to find out what was going on. It has helped her to be empathetic and helpful and she has learned to never ever call her sister stupid. I did relate ad/hd to her asthma—a condition that she has that we control, take daily meds for, help her out as a family, but she has learned to live with.

I have a question for you, can you explain to me what you mean by working and sequential memory?

Roxie, thanks for the tip both for the books and the praise. That is something I will definitely keep in mind as my daughter gets older. Right now she is just so excited about doing well. The thing I did find was that she was stressing herself out over getting all good grades and I kept telling her it was okay, just do your best. It didn’t seem to be getting through and then one day I put it into different words. I told her that all I ask is that she works hard. She seemed better able to understand it put that way. She was/is aware that she is different from other kids. Her anxiety doesn’t help. She showed signs of frustration last year but I didn’t pick up on it as indicating anything different. She came home from kindergarten one day and told me she quit and was never going back!

Her diagnoses is ad/hd inattentive with primary area of concern being temporal/working memory. That’s what I meant when I wrote working and sequential memory. The “sequential” was not a correct descriptive word but what I meant was that sequencing is a big issue for her. The doctor explained that it was all linked to her working memory. My daughter comes across as being LD, in particular dyslexic and auditory processing. She was actually diagnosed with visual processing problems before having the neurodevelopmental exam that revealed the ad/hd. Since then the same dev opt has reevaluated her and those scores are way up since meds. I was very surprised that she was not diagnosed with anything besides ad/hd and was somewhat skeptical that it was the whole problem. However, meds have helped so tremendously that it could be.

The doctor explained her working memory problems to me with a good analogy. She said it was like setting your table for Thanksgiving and the table is too small. All of the stuff you put on it doesn’t fit, things fall off, they get lost and scrambled, and you can’t find what you’re looking for or put anything else on the table. Things get pulled out wrong. She said the meds would give my daughter a “bigger table.” Previous to meds my daughter experienced a lot of reading difficulty as well as problems with memory (visual and auditory), following directions, among others. Now she still needs remedial help to get caught up but there is a dramatic difference in her academic functioning.

I know I’m not explaining this as well as the doc but it makes a lot of sense when we go to the office. I think it’s all related to the executive functioning end of things. I hope this makes more sense now and sorry for the mix up in phrasing!

Actually Jen, your explaination makes perfect sense to me. That is my daughter you’re talking about. I too was convinced she had to have an LD, school was just so darn difficult for her, and she didn’t seem to process any of the information she was getting. A special ed teacher online explained to me that it has to do with storing, and retrieving information. Not all information gets stored, and b/c of the clutter in her mind, what is stored, is not always easily accessible. Sometimes a brief, new explanation can bring it up, sometimes it’s an entire relearning issue. Meds have made a huge difference in this, it’s still not perfect. As she has gotten older it’s clear that this effects decoding words, reading and processing text book type material (casual reading books are another story- easier, and more familar words, predictable story lines), spelling, and basic math skills-although these have greatly improved and use of a calculator for these is no biggy anymore, just as long as she understands the equations. I’m still torn to say it’s all ADHD, but she really doesn’t fit any LD, but the experts will tell you, ADHD is not an LD. And my question then is Why does it effect learning so significantly then?

I find most children ask questions when they’re ready to hear the answers. My ADD son started asking questions like ‘why does the ticking of the clock in the classroom distract me and no one else?” in the third grade. As the years went on, he wanted to know more and in college now, he asked to revisit the doctor who diagnosed his ADD many years ago.

Some people decide they don’t want to advocate for themselves - my older ADD son does not want extended time etc. My younger ADD son is right in a teacher’s face if they deny him that same extended time.

Roxie, it does sound like our kids are very similar! Like you the jury is still out on if there is something besides the ad/hd. It’s nice to know there is somebody else out there who knows what we are going through. What I find most astonishing is that educators are not aware that ad/hd can academically affect children to the degree that it does our children. I say this from the perspective of being a teacher and never knowing this. I’ve also spoken to many of my coworkers who also had no idea! We really need some serious inservice training for this!

Sara, for now that is how I’m handling it. She has not asked but I know a day is coming and I will need the right words. I think you are right that kids ask when they are ready to hear answers. That’s kind of how the birds and bees discussion took place with my older child. I thought the discussion would never end! It went on for months as new questions kept popping up! It’s probably still not over! Maybe it never will be?

How about checking into a cognitive skills program that would remediate the memory and sequence problems? Audiblox does a very good job. It also works on concentration, attention, directionality, and processing.

It’s funny you bring that up. I have done a little reading on cognitive skills, but thought that it had to be done through a therapist. And I haven’t found one yet that does this training. Can you tell me more about Audiblox? Have you tried it?

Yes, I have worked with it. It can be very powerful, but it takes time and is not a quick fix. I am currently working with someone with memory and sequence issues. The memory is improving, but probably a more noticeable effect is the organizational skills she has developed when working on a sequencing exercise. Her self confidence is also improving and she is now excited about school and wants to do well.
Audiblox is a program you can do yourself with your child. No special training is needed. You just have to be willing to put in the time as it takes consistent time.
Check out their website. www.audiblox2000.com or www.audiblox.com

back when ds was born, way before we knew he had learning issues, my husband and I decided to be very careful with praise. I felt that telling a child they were the greatest, best, most fabulous at something when they could clearly see that might not be the case would undermine what we were saying . No crediblity.

I think with an LD child you have that same effect. They don’t want to hear that 80% is great, when they struggled to get there and watched their friends easily get 90%. And I think smart kids like my DS can smell when I’m “too” excited from a mile away. I realized I don’t carry on over my daughter’s accomplishments the same way…

Its a tricky balance to praise their efforts with out making them feel patronized. I try to be really honest with DS but its hard.

This is an interesting conversation. There is an interesting book by a U of PA psychologist called the Optimistic Child that talks very concretly about praise and self esteem. He says that accomplishment builds self esteem rather than the other way around and that we undermine children by praising them when they don’t “deserve” it.

Still, I think there is something else at stake here. I think we all need to take pleasure in our own accomplishments rather than comparing ourselves to others all the time. I, of course, face the same thing with my own LD son. This year is the first year he has ever been able to do the regular spelling list. He has received 100s a few times on final tests. Rather than being pleased, he tells me about the kids who have got 100s on every pretest (day before the test). I tell him he may never be a very good speller and that it is simply easier for some kids than others but that he has come so far and needs to take pride in that.

I am not sure he totally buys it either.

But in real life we do need to enjoy our successes or else we are just going to be unhappy and dissatisfied people. We can’t always be the best or even average, especially in school where we don’t get to pick what to do.

Beth

“accomplishment builds self esteem rather than the other way around and that we undermine children by praising them when they don’t “deserve” it”

Beth, this is almost verbatim something the head of DS’s new school said during one of our orientation sessions last fall. They said that early on they decided their school wasn’t going to be a warm fuzzy place where the mission is make everyone happy all the time. (which is what we saw at another LD school we looked at…) instead they said that the kids are happy when they can accomplish : read, write , spell etc . and that their mission is help these kids learn so they can internalize their happiness.

Same idea!

Let’s hope it works….

[quote=”KarenN”]”accomplishment builds self esteem rather than the other way around and that we undermine children by praising them when they don’t “deserve” it”

Beth, this is almost verbatim something the head of DS’s new school said during one of our orientation sessions last fall. They said that early on they decided their school wasn’t going to be a warm fuzzy place where the mission is make everyone happy all the time. (which is what we saw at another LD school we looked at…) instead they said that the kids are happy when they can accomplish : read, write , spell etc . and that their mission is help these kids learn so they can internalize their happiness.

Same idea!

Let’s hope it works….[/quote]

[b]I agree that it serves no purpose to give false praise. But what about when that praise is deserved, but it seems that the child doesn’t see it that way. My dd has come along way since she was first dx’d. Back in 1st and 2nd grade she wasn’t learning, not until her 2nd grade teacher began interventions. She is now doing very well. We had some concerns about a class, but again, with some extra help from the teacher, a more individualized teaching approach, she is doing quite well. She is a self starter, and is willing to put in the extra effort (most of the time) it takes for her to adequately complete a project. When I acknowledge her efforts and accomplishments, she doesn’t want to hear it. It’s not undeservd praise. She deserves a lot of kudo’s for what she has accomplished herself. She has taken strategies that her teachers have suggested, and puts them in place on her own. When she can, she identifies what the problem is and tries to tackle it on her own. She’s come up with some crazy ways of studying- like keeping a dictionary nearby to help her decode and define words- which in turn, increases her comprehension. She even wrote me a poem once. It was about not talking about her accomplishments, but to let her go her own way.
But then, she’ll get upset with me an tell me that I think she is dumb or bad and that I don’t see anything good. I wish I could just blame it on being a teen, but I don’t believe for a moment that it’s that easy.
I’m beginning to believe that she doesn’t feel that she is deserving of praise for something that her sisters don’t get praise for. What she ignores is that her sisters haven’t had to overcome the challenges she has.
[/b]

I agree that praise should not be given when not earned and it shouldn’t be overboard. I’ve been thinking about this thread and it’s hard to know where to draw the line. This has got to be one of those situations where we each know our child and what they need at that time in their life. For right now my child is looking for the praise to validate she is doing well. For example, after VT on Monday she came out and said “Mom, I did super good tonight! I did really really good!” So, I say something to reinforce that like, “Honey, that’s great! I’m glad to hear you are doing so well!” That may not be typical as not all kids do VT. However, it’s the same sort of thing about school. She’s only been on meds a little over a month so her success is still new to her and SHE gets very excited!

However, my daughter is bright and like Roxie’s daughter I can see a time where she might be more critical of herself. She is already critical about certain things. I think the ad/hd combined with adolescence can be tough as far as self esteem. I teach teenagers and even those without special needs often find it hard to take positive praise. If I say something is good I often hear “no it’s not” or “don’t lie to me.” My response is, “you should know by now that one thing I don’t do is lie. AND I didn’t say it was perfect or there wasn’t something else you could do (if that’s the case). I said it was …..” (whatever I said). Or, sometimes, I turn the tables and say, “okay you tell me what’s wrong with it then? Why? Or, what would you do different?” Sometimes a different approach can help. Then we can discuss it and I can go back and say, “yes, you are right but I think…” or “I understand where you are coming from but I think…”

Anyway, sorry this is getting long. I guess what I’m trying to say is that I think as far as praise that I agree with the general consensus but feel that we need to take each child individually. Some kids at some stages need or want more praise than others. However, I think all kids should hear well earned praise at an appropriate level of enthusiasm!

Jen
That was a great message. You are very right, it is a matter of knowing what your child needs. My youngest, non ADHD boy, looks for praise anyway he can get it, often pointing out how well he did, or how clever or funny he was. It’s a different case with my ADHD daughter. I often find myself defending my praise or encouragement, usually by going in deeper and getting specific about my dd’s past challenges and how she has overcome. I am going to stop and try to remember to use some of the phrases you have in the past. I think that that will help me to know better what she is thinking and feeling, instead of me trying to get her to be proud.
As I write this I’m realizing that when it comes to her dancing, she has no problem with my praise, because she is good and she knows it. However, when it comes to academics, it has been a different story, so even in the presence of her success, she can’t or won’t accept the praise. Maybe it’s a lack of confidence, or not wanting to ‘jinx’ things, or just that there are too many old feelings that it’s hard to to the positives???? I didn’t know that I was going to need a degree in psychology to raise this child!! I guess I need to stop trying to figure it out and let her show me the way for a change.