Taking points off test scores for behavior

Lori,

I guess one question is whether the teacher is treating all the students alike. Do they all get 10 points off for forgetting their name? My fourth grade son loses 5 points for not putting name and heading on a paper and repeatedly tells me about how his teacher thinks it is so sad when someone who got 100 doesn’t, because of their name. I think his teacher, who I really like, has this kind way about it that takes some of the sting out of it. My first grade son had to write his name 50 times for forgetting to put it on the paper. I thought it was rather severe (as is his teacher in general) but then he told me he was the first one done—seems this was a rather common punishment!!! He seemed pleased with himself so I kept my mouth shut.

I have never heard of losing points for behavior on a test. And I think announcing a student’s test grade in class is totally unprofessional on the teacher’s part. It does suggest that she is “out to get him”.

On homework, my son gets some portion of his homework graded. I sometimes help and sometimes don’t, depending on what it is. Frankly, I see learning as more important than grades so if he is having trouble, I reteach it and help him. So you might say that I sometimes get graded as well! I figure it is fourth grade not college and learning is the goal. I also might tell you that even with my help he never gets those science worksheets all right!!!!

Beth

I hate to say it but I had similar experiences with the schools and I think it is pretty typical. I NEVER had a teacher off for inappropriate behavior but my kids dont generally lean that way so who knows????

In junior high, my oldest had an entire unit test thrown in the trash and was given a zero because his name was not on it. He was terrible about the name thing as well-points off, an A to a B, etc. LIke you said, it never worked, so how about trying another tact instead of beating a dead horse?

I dont think teachers realize what effect this has on not just the kids, but the parents. I was a perfect parent schoolwise-bent over backwards to be sure my kids did their work, had their field trip money in on time, had perfect attendance almost every year, no tardies. My kids were well behaved and well liked.

I lost that enthusiasm in junior high.

Frankly, so did my kids. ?We assume its an age thing but who knows? How frustrating to spend days on a science project and have it tossed because you used single corrugated cardboard instead of double? To receive a zero because you abbreviated the date?

The teachers would defend themselves saying “that is how it will be in college”

I had to bite my tongue not to ask what mail order college they went to! Neither DH or I encountered anything like that while in college(DH has a PHD)

High school is better. Sooo much more laid back and ‘adult’(I mean the teachers act like adults ;))

Im homeschooling my youngest for 6th grade. His LDs and a need to catch up were certainly the biggest concerns but, yes, all those memories from my older two certainly crept in

I feel for you hitting this stuff in 4th grade!!!!

Does he have an IEP? If so, immediately request a meeting and have it written into his IEP that points cannot be taken off for : x, y, z

I had it written in that my LD kid couldnt lose point for incorrect spelling unless it was a spelling test. Drove me crazy-spent hours and hours learning those continents and oceans(remembering multusyllable words for him was like me remembering Japanese)HE learned them-perfectly-he was so proud-and received an F because he didnt spell them correctly.

Flunk him in spelling but ,dang it, give the kid the credit for GEography-he worked his butt off

OK, done ranting

Lori, it’s hard to know what’s going on with your son until you have your evaluation. He could be acting out because he is frustrated by an LD, could be bored because he’s advanced, or could be ad/hd. In other words, could be anything. However, as an educator myself the first thing I thought is he needs some positive attention. He’s getting negative attention and reactions from his behavior but I have found in experience that giving those type of behavior that are annoying the least attention possible and complimenting the good can work miracles. I’ve had kids who drive everybody else nuts be so totally devoted because the time was taken to encourage and compliment. Sounds like it’s become a battle of wills with the teacher. If given the chance kids like that can sometimes become a leader in the class.

I would never use an academic punishment for something behavioral. However, I do have the advantage of teaching older students. Usually a threat of detention works. Sometimes standing or sitting next to the student will work. Sometimes moving them next to me. I know my ad/hd child has lost 2-5 points for talking from time to time. Have you asked this teacher some questions? Like, ask her if she’s tried moving seats just for a test. If she hasn’t, can she try it? Who is he talking to? What are they talking about? If it is found your son has special needs accommodations can be made for testing. This is particularly important when they do standardized testing.

I don’t agree with announcing test grades—particularly poor ones. It is inappropriate.

As far as homework there are times when we have to help with homework. Not as much as before meds. But in our house if we didn’t it didn’t get done. It was a struggle even with us helping. However, if I find my daughter is having difficulty I will write a note to the teacher so they can address it in school with some extra help. If homework is to check understanding this shouldn’t be an issue. I do have to admit that my daughter’s homework is not graded. Just checked off. Even my older child (12) doesn’t get homework graded.

At the very least, I would start with a parent teacher conference with a list of your questions phrased in a non-accusatory way. Even though some of the things are inappropriate you will get further towards finding answers if it doesn’t become an adversarial confrontation.

I felt bad rereading my post as MOST the teachers my kids had were reasonable caring people. It was just a few that were involved in the situations I told of(science teachers seem to fall into this category A LOT-that logical, everything has to be categorized mind? My own hs science teacher made us turn our papers is with the heading corner to the SW or some such absurdity)

Anyway, there ARE wonderful teachers out there. Hopefully, you will get one in 5th grade!

Did this 4th gr teacher teacher junior high science in the past? LOL

I just saw Marycas response and I agree with her. It’s funny how it works. In elementary school the kids are taken care of. When they go to middle school in 5th grade it’s black or white, fail or pass attitude. The excuse is they have to be prepared for high school. However, these kids are changing classes for the first time, using lockers for the first time, etc. But, if they are late or forget something they are punished pretty harshly. My daughter last year was told she couldn’t go on a big class field trip because she was talking while there was a substitute in the room. I fought it and the teacher “decided” she could go afterall. Then when they get to the high school (where I work) we are again taking care of these kids and remembering they are somebody’s child!

Taking some points off for no-name, yes its common. taking points off for behavior has a very funny smell. What assessment model is that??????

Some teachers have a behavior/class participation component to their grade scheme. I f your child loses those points due to inappropriate behavior, so be it. but the behavior component is generally only 10% or so. But a test is meant to measure how much information a student has retained/can apply.

Check your student handbook - most schools have grading guidleines and I would be very, very surprised to find a behavior component within test school. talking during a test is often penalized for the cheating possibilities.

My experience is it not possible to change a teacher with a very rigid attitude. That kind of an attitude is a teacher unable to cope or unwilling to learn. Move your child before the damage is too great.

sorry about going off topic here but I just want to say that the remarks I made earlier about middle school apply to the experiences that we’ve had here in our own district!

Thanks, everyone, for your replies. It seems that the taking points off for no name is more common than I thought. I didn’t have so much of a problem with it at first, thinking maybe that’s just the thing that might do the trick. Beth mentioned about the kind way her son’s teacher dealt with it. Unfortunately, my son’s teacher is cold and uncaring about it. Each time, it beats him a little further into the ground.

He doesn’t have an IEP as of yet. We’ll see what his neuropsych eval tells us and go from there, I guess. He definitely has motor and visual-motor weaknesses. He could also have other processing issues and/or ADD.

What is amazing to me, really, is that his teacher is only 23 years old (just) and this is her first year teaching. I’m sure it explains why she doesn’t see the big picture here as in how his emotions are effecting his behavior (and his schoolwork, too.) Also, it perhaps explains why she seems unable or unwilling to use a different strategy, such as what JenM mentioned (oh, I so wish you were his teacher, JenM). She is a tough cookie, but really detrimental to a kid who is struggling with his self-image. We’re getting nowhere with her after meeting with her and with the school principal. It is feeling adversarial (sp?) now. I think we will unfortunately have to leave the school.

Thanks, everyone, for your words of support and for helping me understand better what is normal in this case.

Lori

Lori

Is there another 4th grade class?

Your son does sound challenging and a brand new young teacher could be overwhelmed. College gives teachers ‘effective strategies’ and leads them to believe they are now ready for anything a kid may throw their way. In reality, there is far more learning on the job than in the college classsroom. Her actions smack of frustration and trying ‘anything’ in hopes that it will work to settle him down

If there is another class available, could you approach the principal without the teacher present with the idea that ds needs a teacher with more experience, you agree he is challenging, this gal is in over her head, etc ?????\

Do you have an alternative school available?

I agree with marycas. She is new, in over her head, and is defensive and probably scared.

One of the best pieces of advice I ever got was from a old friend who is a very talented and experienced reading coordinator and teacher: don’t ask for something a teacher can’t do or doesn’t know how to do. You won’t get it and you’ll wind up with a defensive and angry teacher.

Move the child.

I wish there was another 4th Grade class to move him to, but he is in a small private school with only one class in each grade from 4th up at this point. Enrollment is larger in the lower grades.

It’s a shame because there are reasons I’d love for my son to be in this school for middle school. It is small and safe in many ways. The teachers develop great relationships with each of the kids and seem to do really neat things with them that a larger school can’t. But we’d have to ride out the rest of this year (which doesn’t seem possible at this point) and I’d worry about next year because the 5th Grade teacher is friendly with this year’s teacher. I think she will be pre-disposed.

I’ve written in other posts about how the school has fallen short for our kids academically (seemingly due to this being a first year school when our kids were in 1st Grade and then having a really poor academic 2nd Grade where the teacher was let go as a result). They’ve fixed things up behind us pretty well it seems, so it’s not that the whole school is messed up…just our grade due to several circumstances effecting us. Either way, whether I move him or not, it would be wise for me to hire tutors to fill some gaps in his education. The school isn’t able to do it. Other parents are dealing with this same issue.

I just can’t see my child in a large school, yet. Hopefully he’ll be ready for high school, but middle school would be a disaster I think. I don’t have many options, but think I need to worry first about the here and now and surviving 4th Grade without any further damage.

Thanks so much everyone for your help.

None of my business but why are you paying for a less than acceptable education? do you have other children in this school-I ask because private school often give preference to siblings. You could take him out now and put him back if the middle school is so good.

I feel much the same way about small vs large schools but have learned that it really is the individual teacher who makes the difference. If the school is great, it supports her and is icing on the cake.

I am curious as to why a new school would hire a unexperienced teacher. Is this a religious school?

Didn’t realize til this year just what a problem we had academically for 2 reasons. 1. He is my only child so I didn’t have a point of reference 2. In previous years my concern has been on developing his motor skills and attention - he had always been ahead academically.

No, this is an independent school, not relgious. They hired the teacher in early August when the 4th Grade teacher left the school unexpectedly for personal reasons. Many parents had a fit when we learned she was an inexperienced teacher and some did leave the school. Although I was concerned about her lack of experience, I met with her and she seemed so full of enthusiasm and full of multi-sensory teaching ideas I thought that would compensate for the lack of experience. Her parents are both elementary educators out of state so I thought that was a benefit also. My son’s class is a tough class in that there are many “issues” in the class…kids, like my kid, with stregths and weaknesses to a greater degree than usual.

If it is any consolation, 4th grade has often been described by parents of LD kids as a watershed year. Its the year they “no longer learn how to read but begin to read to learn”. The amount of material increases dramatically and students are asked to take notes, paraphrase, extract and summarise information and then write reports. Big processing leaps.

But I am still surprised that an start-up school would hire an inexperienced teacher in a one class/grade level position. Generally, in larger schools the grade level teachers can support a new teacher with shared prep and advice. But new teachers are cheaper and that’s a draw when bucks are tight. I would put it to the admin the support of the new teacher falls to them. they should be in there helping her, daily if necessary. Teaching skills are not something you learn from a book and your admin knows it.

As to the 5th gade teacher getting the vibes from the 4th grade teacher -thats a given. Can you become a power figure -big on PTA; friend of school director, heavily involved in new student recruiting or the best - board member. Any of these will counter balance anything the 4th grade teacher has to say in a small school.

If you are determined to stay there, try finding a positive, successful, nonschool activity for your child outside of school-karate, swim team, etc. For our daughter it is horseback riding. She is very good and has a chance to shine. I don’t want to alarm you but we had Attila the Hun for 4th grade and it took till most of the 6th grade for my child to recover emotionally.

Rather than deal with the teacher, go to admin. and tell them the emotional cost to your child - he doesn’t want to go to school in the morning, he feels he can’t do anything right, he cries about school, he has trouble sleeping, etc., etc. Ask what can they do to help. Could they facilitate communication between the teacher and child. They hired and they need to help train her.

good luck

The eval should help to explain your son’s behavior and provide guidelines that would be helpful in addressing his needs in school. An IEP or 504 plan can then be developed that can address the areas of concern you currently have. For instance, if he often forgets to write his name but this is deemed to be related to his disability, then the IEP can mandate that maybe there can be a visual cue like highlighting on his papers to remind him. I would also suggest that you bring a consultant into this picture. This young teacher clearly needs help in order to teach your son effectively. In most public schools there is a school psychologist or behavioral specialist who can provide support and guidance for classroom teachers. As your son is in a private school, there may not be that kind of support staff. You nonetheless could request that classroom consultation be provided by the school district- or you could pay for such consultation yourself if you can swing it financially.

I don’t have an answer for this, but here’s a view from the other side of the fence: when I was teaching school and there were a *lot* of problem kids in my classes, as Lori has said about hers, this was the answer I got from the administration — take marks off. Kids don’t work in class and fool around, take marks off. Kids are rude, take marks off. Kids come late and disturb others, take marks off. Kids hit others, take marks off.

Physical punishment is OUT, OK. Detentions are not feasible in this day of commuting nightmares — you can assign all the detentions you want but the kids won’t come, and the principal won’t back you up on it and you will lose all authority. In some places I taught I tried lunch or recess detentions and was told those were illegal. When a kid incites a group to bad behaviour, group discipline is also ilegal. The only answer I got from any of these administrations was take marks off. I tried to run an actual academic class and mark on learning rather than act as a juvenile prison, and it was chaos; the kids got the oposite message the other five hours of the day and just thought I was insane and an easy mark.

Your new teacher is doing a difficult job in general, had very little time to prepare for it, as you have mentioned before she has a group of kids who have previously had some poor teaching and they have bad attitudes and habits as well as big academic gaps. Add to the mix some kids with impulse management problems, and she is probably suffering from extreme stress (I know I was). So she goes to her principal and her former professors for advice, and I wil bet that she is told that she should take marks off.

As I said, there’s no easy answer for this, but do look at what is possible for all concerned. Lori has been notably restrained and understanding in her description — many parents imediately try to get the teacher fired as soon as she dares to try to correct their little “angel”.
Lori, have you observed the class? Could you sit at the back of the room for a few days? This can really open your eyes as to what is actually happening (or, on the other hand, your presence may embarrass your son so much that he will do anything to avoid it happening again.)

Thanks, Victoria, for acknowledging that I’m not, nor have I ever been, a “not my kid” kind of mom. I’ve always communicated my son’s weaknesses as best as I could and have always asked for honest communication from his teachers.

It’s important to note that although the class is difficult, the kids are nice kids. One boy can be mean-spirited sometimes, but the majority of the issues are not that type of behavior issues. One kid is AS, one is very high-functioning autism (I only know because I’m friend’s with the family - all the world sees her as just highly sensitive [can’t deal with getting anything but an “A”, etc.]), one is very shy because she was speech delayed due to a medical condition, others are bright and have their quirks.

My husband and I met with my son’s teacher in late January and were empathic about how difficult our son was making things for her by calling out, joking, etc. We asked for 2 things…1) that she realize that something must be troubling him because he has been in this school for 4 years and his behavior was never out of the norm before; we asked her to try different strategies like as much positive reinforcement that is deemed appropriate because what she was doing was obviously not working [worded more discreetly than this] 2) we asked for immediate communication of any inappropriate behavior so we could deal with it at home that same day.

Unfortunately 3 school days went by without any communication and I heard from my son and the parent of another child about several incidents. Simultaneously, my son’s anxiety levels were going through the roof. It seems that the higher his anxiety level was, the more impulsive he was being. He was hating school, hating his teacher. He said he would try his best, make one mistake, get severely punished/reprimanded (and embarrassed), and then “the day was ruined” in my son’s words.

All this is happening at the same time as taking points off his grades, etc. It’s all working together to make him feel worse and worse about him self and feeling less and less in control of his impulsiveness.

We met with the principal and teacher and I think we’ve made her angry. Now every little thing is being written up (I asked for communication) and she has put in writing that the specials teachers said he was like this last year too (all previous primary teachers are gone). This is where the adversarial part comes in. I have his last report card with good grades in these very same classes, as well as his report cards from previous years. It’s like she’s trying to build a case now. Do I send him back to this school next week under these circumstances? He is extremely fragile right now.

Lori, don’t read too much into their actions. I know how adversarial it is coming off and, if it was me, I would be reacting just as you are. But, looking from the outside, Im betting theyre as scared of you as you are of them.

They dont want to get sued but, by golly, if you do sue, they want their ducks in a row. Thats what all this evidence gathering is about

Try not to let it rattle you!

What are your options if you pull him out now? Homeschooling? Public school? Coming into public school in Feb will have its own issues, of course-being the new kid is always a bit of a challenge and, if hes already fragile,….???

If it was me(and obviously, its not), I would ride out the year and have a plan ready for next year. I would let him know the plan so he can see an end in sight to what’s going on.

Then I would just back off. Let you son know your expectations but make it clear that what happens at school ….well, it just happens at school. If he gets a 50 on a science test, ask him to verbally explain the material to you and compliment him when hes done. “you obviously understand this so I’m not going to worry about this grade-here, rip it up and throw it away!”

His 4th grade marks will not effect his admission into Harvard-really!!!!

At this point, I would let THEM come to you if they want your help disciplining him. You offered and they turned it into something else.

Just spend your effort shoring up his confidence and count the days left. Heck, have a calendar out for him to mark off and announce “57 days left; I can do this”

My middle son had a very difficult 6th gr teacher-we just focused on getting through the year because it was obvious things werent going to change

Lori,
You are paying tuition for this???? You do not sound like you are getting your money’s worth…why not use your public school for the remainder of the year, ask them for an assessment, and use your tuition money for tutoring.

That the teacher is ‘god’ in the classroom — that can be WONDERFUL (we have a great one this year!) or HORRIBLE…as Lori’s DS is learning.

We had a similar situation in Grade 2, though related to academic achievement/compliance as opposed to behaviour, but it was similar in that my son’s achievement is WORSE under pressure, as is your son’s ability for self-control.

On one hand, if hindsight were foresight, I regret not pulling him. But overall, I’m very pleased with the success of the learning experience for my son, now that I see in Gr. 5 how much more ‘armour’ he has against school problems. This teacher also stands as a reference point — she represents all adult bullies for us, and my son now sees himself as someone who can hold his own against bullies, big or small.

Marycas has great advice, Lori — I agree. He is going to run into this sort of person all his life — the person who misunderstands/dislikes him. He is finding it difficult to manage his behaviour with this extra stress — as marycas said, you can support him by understanding, even if they don’t. Marks are just marks — they aren’t always fair, and they DON’T define you. Yes, in higher grades they are sometimes essential — but as victoria (I think it was!) said, not in gr 4!!

If you believe in him, and support him when he comes home with his tale of woe each day, regardless of HIS errors, this will empower him to improve his self-control as far as he is able, and the embarrassment and ‘sting’ of her comments/actions will lessen. He may be able to reduce his bad feelings at school by thinking ‘wait til Mum and Dad hear about THIS’! A few days observation might be good too — for both reasons stated, but I’d only do it if your son agrees. He’s suffering enough mortification!

I wouldn’t be surprised if, when you choose marycas’s plan, over the next few weeks, your son’s ability to manage his behaviour improves, and the pressure lets up — it may take time, but I think they ARE scared and acting like we sometimes do when backed into a corner — badly. It is obvious that this teacher dislikes him (or at least, his behaviour and probably him, since you failed to roll over and join her in making him the scapegoat!) and has NO idea how to reach him. It is the kind of thing that can’t be taught — I’ve learned this in my own work as a cubleader and sunday school leader — but HE can learn and learn very big good things from managing to survive this year.

He will need support, support, support, and lots of talk at home, with positive strokes (and rewards, if appropriate!) for his bravery and strength in enduring her bad behaviour while managing to pass — if marks are taken off for behaviour, you will STILL see the ‘real mark’ and I highly doubt they could fail him for this — given that it is the behaviour.

If you take this tack and it DOES get worse, you can still follow one of the other plans — I just feel that, since you have to change schools, this may NOT be the time to pull him out. A person does not need to be the new kid when already fragile, IMO. In the end, you will go with your gut — sounds from your reactions and posts as if you have a good one!

GOOD LUCK! I hope you will keep us all updated as this plays out…

You raise good points. The first issue though is that this teacher is the wrong one for your son. She’s clearly frustrated and overwhelmed and behaving poorly.

Test scores should reflect test performance - not behavior. And you’re right - what she’s doing doesn’t seem to be working and that’s important to point out to the principal. This teacher needs some help getting back on track with your son.

You’re also right in that homework should be for practice but most schools have very confused policy around homework. Most schools these days tell parents not to help but then so much complicated homework home that no child could do it by themself.

Rather than fight that battle, though, I’d concentrate on the poor behavior of the teacher. NO teacher should announce grades publically and I think in doing that, she’s violating the law. Student grades in public or private school are protected by a law guaranteeing privacy and her action may be illegal there but again she needs some help from her administrators to see that. Have a conversation with the principal and inquire if it school policy to announce failing grades of one student to an entire class.

Thanks everyone for your feedback and support. My son has been off this week, so I’m hoping that the break will help the situation some. He did 2 sessions of neuropsych testing over the break and the 3rd and final will be a week from Saturday. So we’re still a couple of weeks off from any real information. There really isn’t anything else we can do with the principal - we’ve tried and he’s defensive too. I know I’m not the only situation he’s dealing with in our little class of 16.

We’re going to try to keep him in school until we get results and guidance from the neuropsych. I guess it will be a one day at a time thing. At the same time I will be getting my little ducks together in case we decide to pull him and homeschool him the balance of the year. I’ll also be looking at schools for next year and beyond. I’m really sad about that…I’ve been looking forward to the small, intimate middle school since 1st Grade for him (sigh).

I’ll let you all know how it goes next week. I’m hoping he can hold it together (and the same for me!)

Thanks again!

Have you spoken with the principal? Especially about the public announcements of his failing grades? It’s illegal to publically announce student grades. And as it’s a private school they should have a handbook that states their policies in regard to homework etc.

Good luck.

A small private school where your child will be with the same 16 or so kids for the next 5 or so years?? One class per grade? How will you implement any recommendations from your evaluation?

We just got back home tonight after getting away for a couple of days…we were hoping it would help with a feeling of a fresh start for getting back to school next week. No such luck. My son was all distraught tonight over going back on Monday. He started quoting the words to a current pop song that says something to the effect of “no matter how hard I try…nothing really matters” [those aren’t they words, but that’s the jist]. I have this sick feeling in my stomach. I didn’t like him going to sleep with such negative feelings.

Sara, my husband and I did meet with the principal a couple of weeks ago. He was quite defensive, but after all was said and done we did all agree to meet with the teacher the next day to tell her how our son felt and discuss a strategy for dealing with the situation. When we showed up for the meeting the next day, the principal came oiut of left field very first thing and accused me of “making excuses” for my son’s behavior and inferred I was on overprotective parent because I brought his lunch to school often the year before when he was in 3rd Grade (what does that have to do with the price of bananas?). It was really crazy as it was like the meeting the day before never happened…he just attacked me. Thank goodness my husband was there because I would have walked out right then and there and my husband would never have believed how I was antagonized. My husband, in a very strong way, told him that he had no idea what he was talking about (my son has very bad allergies and I was having to be very careful about what he ate…I still do, but have more flexibility after 3 years of allergy shots and other treatments).

Basically, things have escalated since our meeting. No, I haven’t told him about reading the grades outloud, but honestly, I’m in a position now where I feel that I will only make things worse if I speak to him about it. I think the only thing that will improve the situation is if my son’s behavior gets close to perfect. They’re on him for everything now. Our attempt to advocate for him seems to have backfired.

What is really crazy is that the progress report he got right before xmas still showed good or satisfactory behavior in all categories. Isn’t it wild to hear from the teacher (in writing) that the other teachers (specials) said he was “like this last year, too”.

I was able to tell the neuropsych who is testing my son that we are in crisis with school. He basically said we need to wait until he finishes testing before he can advise us. Hopefully we can hold out that long.

SAR, I don’t think I’m clear on the full meaning of your questions. Are you saying that you think it’s unlikely that anything positive can come from the evaluation in the school he is in because of the small size? Believe me, I’m not feeling positive about it either, but my husband does not support me taking him out and homeschooling for the rest of the year without the neuropsych recommending it.

Lori

How can you change teachers or classmates with a one class per grade system? I would take my child out and use the public school and use the tuition money for tutoring.

SAR, I have thought about public school for at least the remainder of this year but I have a major concern. I’m virtually certain my son wouldn’t pass the writing portion of the FCAT which is required for 4th Grade.

I have been given the name of a 4th grade public school teacher who has been recommended to tutor my son in writing. It really maddens me that after paying a total of $40,000 for tuition for Grades 1,2,3 and 4 that I have to hire a teacher from public school to teach my son what he wasn’t taught in his private school. But that’s another story.

I’m concerned about the gaps in his education as it relates to other private schools also. I really think I need to homeschool him with the help of tutors to get him caught up before moving him into another school. I would want him to start in another school with his skills as solid as possible.

I plan to contact the writing tutor this week. We can hopefully get started with her once a week in the interim.

Thanks for your suggestion…would really consider public school for the balance of 4th and 5th if it weren’t for the writing.

Sorry it didn’t go well. The teacher is inadequate and defensive and the principal is having to defend her when she really isn’t defendable. Its a no win situation. Yup, been there. I tried to persevere but in the end wished I had pulled my child. We spent a miserable rest of the year with our child diminishing before our eyes.

Later I did homeschool for a time while we were out on an extended family emergency. I think you will be very pleasantly surprised. Homeschooling takes far less time than regular schooling because classrooms spend so much time lining up, handing out, and other crowd controls. There is time for sidebar conversations and personal interests. There are lots excellent materials around. It was very manageable and both my daughter and I benefited from it. She is now back in school and is a much more independent student. If homeschool is an option, don’t discount it-even if its an interim solution to finding a better school for him.

As to the school-this teacher has a contract and is there at least until the end of the year. She dislikes your son (probably it would be more correct to say she dislikes the situation she’s in). Another few months of this - what for? Does this school have good programs in music, PE, drama, art, etc? Consider having the child at school for some of those and the rest of the time with you. This would allow him to easily have contact with friends.

I think the writing tutor is an excellet idea.

Lori,

I actually think the kids took the FCAT writing portion already this month. Reading and math are in March.

Personally I’d wait till FCATS are completely over. It is a pressure cooker there until then.

That is only a few more weeks and then public school could be an option.

In my experience, the academics slow down a lot after FCATS are over so you might even have time for tutoring.

Not a perfect solution but a possible one.

Beth

I’ve just read the entire thread and I wish I had your patience.

I can’t get past that lattice multiplication nonsense. Do they also confuse the students by teaching them to count on their toes and use an abacus? Do they make them learn to count in base 6 or base 8 like Montgomery County MD public schools used to? I’d be in there raising cain, so, like I said, I admire your patience.

I had to go google for lattice multiplication info and it’s no wonder it died out around 1200 a.d. or whenever it was Dr. Math said it did. Okay, he said it dates back to the 1200s or before in Europe, so now I’m certain it works really well even as a teaching tool. ;)

http://mathforum.org/library/drmath/view/52468.html

John

And remember, ‘average’ is 25-75% percentile. He’d have to do poorly to completely fail and, if he does, so what? Doesnt that just mean they have to provide him with tutoring now(free, BTW)

I know there is a lot of talk about kids being retained if they fail a portion of standardized testing, but IME in Illinois and Indiana, it isn’t really happening!

My son passed the 5th gr writing portion of the ISATs(IL) last year. Barely, but he passed!!!!

They pretested before the actual test and then provided tutoring for the kids who struggled. It was awesome-transportation provided, small group sizes

He learned a ton-has forgotten most of it ;), but they did a pretty good job at no expense to me

I vote for homeschooling, but dont let the FCAT scare you off PS completely. There are some positives!

John, you’ll love this one…my ds came home last night with yet another non-traditional way of doing multifplication. It’s a partial-sums method. They learned this type method for addition and subtraction earlier in the year. I can see what they are trying to do with this - they are getting the kids used to manipulating numbers in different ways which does have a benefit. The thing that is ridiculous in my mind, however, is that they haven’t been taught the standard method of multiplication with a 2-digit multiplier. So now sometimes they are going right to left, other times they are going left to right and other times they are going diagonally. Very confusing when the basics aren’t in tact, which I think overrides the benefits of the number manipulations.

Lori

Just wanted to let you know how my son’s first day back to school went yesterday (he was on vacation last week).

The good news is that his behavior was much better. I saw his teacher at 10:30 when I arrived to meet with his Spanish teacher. She told me he was having a good morning! (of course, no smile on her face at all)….I was thrilled, because it was really tough getting him there (“Mom, you’d never make me go if you knew just how terrible it was for me!” :( I’ll tell you what made a difference for him, but just want to finish this piece first not to confuse things.

When I picked him up, his teacher came to the car stone-faced as usual and told me that “he had a pretty good day…she knows she told me that he had a pretty good morning, but he had 2 incidents…..blah, blah. She continued to tell me about 2 immature pranks (not during classtime). One was very, very minor and the other was worth telling me (a friend said he’d give him $20 if he cut off a little piece of his hair, which he proceeded to do). Point is, she didn’t give him *any* positive feedback for such an improved day. She could have been all excited about how well he did, and a little sad about the one bad judgement call he made. But nothing like that. Of course, I made sure I gave him the positive feedback as well as a discussion about his lack of judgement.

Just wanted to let you all know what helped get him to school. One of the many reasons he didn’t want to go was because he sometimes gets teased…generally by 1 kid who used to be his best friend. I pulled up the website I heard about on this board- bullies2buddies.com. We read a few of the lessons right before school and I think it allowed him to go to school with some tools he didn’t feel he had before. Even though I’ve told him these things in much the same way, it made a difference to see it in writing from someone who *knows*, I guess. I really think this is how his whole problem started…a friendship gone bad and a social situation developing because my son is sensitive and wears his emotions on his sleeve, making him ripe for teasing just to see his reaction. He went to the teacher early on for help, and because she was dealing with so much already in the classroom, she told the kids to work it out themselves. Well, it all just escalated from there. I recommend this website…my son really benefited from it.

So we need 1 more good day…please keep your fingers crossed.

I will keep the public school in mind as an option. I need to call and see if someone can come in after the FCATs and graduate. I am hoping we can hold on until we get the testing results, though.

Thanks so much, everyone.

Lori,

Oh brother. Maybe you need to set up a reward system at home.

Frankly, I can’t imagine they won’t let kids go on to the next grade without FCATs. What do they do with the kids who come in from other states or countires? Besides, his grades are good. And as someone said, passing is only 25% anyway (not that hasn’t been a challenge for us).

Besides, don’t you have some standardized testing from the private school. They probably would look at that.

Beth

All I can say is, I hope this lady chooses another profession-soon!

Humor and positive strokes are so effective and sour grapes are so ineffective. She simply doesn’t get it!!!

Its tough to keep your child positive in a negative situation. I, too, admire your patience. Hang in there. Maybe you’ll get lucky and get the neuro testing over about the same time FCAT is finished in the public schools. Both of you may need another holiday by then!