anger management

Jen,

I can relate to everything you are talking about. My dd started with the anger sometime in first grade, it became an issue in second. She would get angry at school, and held it all in. When she walked through our front door the backpack went flying and she was a tightly would spring waiting to pop. Treating her ADHD helped decrease this, but it never has completely eliminate. Her responses (explosions) seem out of proportion for the “crime” against her. Our experience has been that her anger is directed where she feels safe doing so, at her family. I think your Dr is wise with her suggestions, but I wouldn’t wait too long as your dd may not remember enough of the feelings from the incident and not be able to sort them out with you. What we have done that has helped is to have my dd go to her room, not as a punishment, but as a safe place for her to calm down, relax, and get herself together. I am clear that her behavior is unacceptable, but that I am more than willing to listen to her complaints when it can be done without the screaming and anger. She can leave her room whenever she feels she is reading and come to me to talk. Yes, sometimes I have to send her back, and sometimes I have to tell her that I am still too angry to talk so I need more time to calm down. We first talk about what she was feeling. In the beginning I had a photo copy sheet from a book of faces with different feelings. For her, everything was “mad”. She could not put a name to frustration, disappointment, sad, etc. If it was a bad feeling, it was “mad”. We’d talk about the feeling, and when appropriate, which was almost always, I’d acknowledge her feelings. Whether I agreed that she should feel that way, they were her feelings, so they are legitimate. Then we’d move on to discuss better ways to handle the feelings, she goes first. I only contributed when she couldn’t find a more positive way to handle it to avoid the explosion. Depending on the situation, I’d give her a chance to repeat the behavior, we would discuss an appropriate consequence (say she hit someone or destroyed someones things), or we just moved on. Often she would choose to spend a little more time alone. I can’t say that we have had 100% success with this. But it is so much better. She simply has a hard time handling her feelings, especially negative ones. Why? I could come up with several possibilities, but my non-ADHDer’s do not have this problem, she is the only one of 4 kids. At 15 yrs (in April actually), negative feelings are still an issue, and always will be I think. But just yesterday she was not allowed to go out with friends to a movie b/c she didn’t get that food out of her room during the week. In the past, I have reversed myself if I see that she (or her sibs) do what they should have in the first place. Well, she has been manipulating this lately so that she does nothing of her chores, unless she wants to go somewhere, then she do them. So, I called it this time and said that the food needed to come out, and she still couldn’t go out last night. She was mad of course, but she handled it so well. She needed time alone, and didn’t want to talk right away, but she handled it, by herself. It’s Saturday now, and she still needs to get the room cleaned up. I hope today goes as well. I have found that how I handle myself is also of issue. I go from 0 to 60 when it comes to anger pretty easily too. So I have to give myself time to put things into proper perspective. I have the tendency to feel responsible for her anger, and then I get even angier. I can’t yell. I can’t have a heavy hand in punishing her. Punishment simply creates of feeling of “I’m a bad person” in her, and everything goes down the shoot from there. She does handle logical consequences though, and especially when she agrees with them. She still doesn’t like them, but it’s not a knock down, drag out feeling afterword. I know I’m babbling here, but I wanted to give you too much information instead of not enough and let you pick out what might be helpful to you. If you haven’t read them, try “1 2 3 Magic” by Thomas Phelan more for you than your daughter. It’s as much about changing the parents reactions as the childs. The book and video are best- check the library. “The Defiant Child” by Douglas Riley and “The Explosive Child” by Ross Greene. Not every chapter of these will be relavent to your daughter, but just take what you can use. Take what fits for your family. Initially I got caught up in finding the “right” program for my dd. When we started counseling with the social worker she helped me to see that it’s not about a program, it’s about what you and your child needs, everything else gets shelved. It may be useful later on, it may never be useful. If I can clearify anything, let me know, if I didn’t address your concern appropriately, let me know, I’ll be glad to try again.

Remember, kids with ADHD have trouble with impulse control. It is more difficult for her to control her impulse to ‘go off’ than it is for the neurotypical child

This doesnt mean she can’t or that she should be excused from that responsibility, but it may be that this is a characteristic she will simply have to learn to live with(and so will you ;))

I think you are on the right track by helping her find a method to work through the problems

One thing-back when I was in college(wayyyy back)advice was given to have kids hit pillows or kick boppy dolls to release that anger. I never agreed with it, and apparently, more recent research is backing up my gut.

They DO need to learn to control it and ‘keep it inside”. No employer is going to understand when a 22 yr old male puts his fist through the wall instead of hitting a co-worker. If he wants to come home after a bad day at work and jog or lap the ymca pool-fine-but, to some degree, everyone needs to learn to hold it in at least temporarily. “holding it in” is NOT a bad thing and I think the media tends to make us think that

You could ‘channel’ your daughter to draw, listen to music, work to a kids aerobic tap,etc while in her room. Let her find a lifelong,socially acceptable outlet for her emotions. As soon as you see the storm brewing, direct her to that outlet

I also recommend “1,2, 3 Magic”, Ive never read it but have always used similar tactics with my kids because trial and error told me it worked. I am a service coordinator for kids with special needs and this book is recommended by therapists I work with on a regular basis

On another track, remember that the ADHD brain seeks stim. It needs it to function and a child will look to activity or daydreaming when they the need for that wake up call. Arguing with mom is GREAT stim. Again, look at her anger with you as ‘needing brain stim’ and immediately give her an alternative, acceptable method

Good advice above. One additional thing to consider: from your description, the anger intensified after the medications started. While parents are seldom informed of this, stimulants in general can cause or exacerbate aggressive tendences. Daniel Amen talks about this some, and he is not an anti-medication kind of a guy. Anyway, it is possible that this intensification may be a side effect of the medication.

I have two kids who would qualify for the diagnosis, and both had difficulty managing their tempers. It is true that they would save it up and hold it in when with friends or at school because they could get in trouble or be asked to leave, so we got the leftovers once they got home. While this is normal, if the meds are in any way intensifying her aggressive feelings, and she already had temper problems before, she must be about ready to explode by the time school is over!

I would certainly also ask what she is so angry about in school. There may be bullying going on (and don’t forget that occasionally it can be a TEACHER who is being the bully) or she may be getting work that is too hard or too easy. The fact that a child is completing work doesn’t mean they are learning anything. See what is going on at school and make sure the environment is meeting her needs. If ADHD is really a disability (and the schools are getting money for it as a disability, so they obviously are assuming this view), then as in any disability case, they need to make appropriate accomodations. Putting a kid on meds and then expecting them to do whatever everyone else does is NOT making accomodations! So see what you can do to make that world better for her. The less stressful it is at school, the less hold-over anger you will have to deal with at home.

But don’t dismiss the possibility that the behavior changes are medication side effects. I work with kids in foster care and a ton of them are on meds of different kinds. I have seen may cases where behavior worsened as a result of medications, or that side effects of medication were interpreted as symptoms. People tend to assume that behavior changes are due to the child’s issues, but it is somtimes the medications causing a lot of the problems, and that almost always gets overlooked. Actually, I should say that professionals (in my observation) tend to assume that POSITIVE behavior changes are due to the meds, but NEGATIVE behavior changes are the child’s problem. A very disempowering attitude for the child, to say the least. But if medications can make big positive changes in behavior, it should be obvious to anyone that they can make big negative impacts as well. I hope you will look into this in addition to all the wise advice given above.

Good luck!

–- Steve

Thanks Roxie. Our kids seem so similar. I have the advantage in that your child is older and you have already been where we are now! It sounds like I do handle it similar to you. Her time outs are for her to get her head together and when she’s ready we talk. The doctor was just suggesting we talk again after she’s fully recovered but keep it real low key. Fortunately, I am not quick tempered and rarely get upset at her. I don’t let her treat me inappropriately but I don’t take it personally either. However, she is not yet a teenager and I know that when they are in their teens it can be a whole different story. You did not give too much info at all! In fact, feel free to ramble some more. Do you think that in your case the anger is more related to the anxiety or the ad/hd? Or, can they even be separated? Did you find that there was a difference from before meds to after?

Thank you also, marycas. Impulsiveness is a big issue. My daughter is a very talented artist. I am also an artist so that is one area that I have really encouraged. She has drawn me some pictures when she gets angry that illustrate quite nicely how she feels. The one thing that I have found is it’s hard to know when the storm is brewing. Sometimes it’s like a tornado that comes through real quick and then is gone before you know it. If she’s tired I do make sure she has some quiet time. In fact, it’s part of our daily routine to have “quiet time” and I think that helps. I have encouraged her to count to 10 and take deep breathes when she feels anger. I am going to head to the library and look for the books that you and Roxie have recommended.

Thanks to Steve also. I have not ruled out that medication can contribute to her anger issue. Part of the reason I am logging things now is to look for patterns. However, the day before yesterday we had a meltdown before meds. Yesterday around 5. So, these are both times where meds are low or not in her system so maybe that’s an indicator. Too early to tell. Today has been a really good day so far! I have my happy child. By the way, her general temperament is very happy and enthusiastic. I’m not sure I can explain this clearly. Before meds her temper was just as bad and there were explosions that also ended in an emotional mess. I have found since meds that all of her feelings come across more clearly—including anger—in other words before she was angry but it wasn’t clear what was going on. I can honestly say that right now she has a superb teacher who she loves. She just told me last week that she has decided she now loves school because she understands the work now. Her anger at school is more towards other students and it really doesn’t seem to be anything like bullying. In fact, I pity the child who tries to bully my child. It’s more little day to day things that happen more on a normal basis when kids interact. Probably not making sense here. It’s seems to be things that maybe other kids would tolerate better but maybe not. Overall, like I said, right now I couldn’t ask for a better school situation. Accommodations are being made, everybody (teachers and all school staff) love her, she has lots of friends, overall a very nice school. We are truly lucky in that regard. The meds have been great for her also because she was one of those kids that previous had great difficulty academically and actually came across as dyslexic. This greatly added to her frustration and seemed to have a lot to do with the cause for her previous anger/explosions. In fact, thinking back some of the meltdowns before were worse than what we have now. I would just hold her in my arms while she cried her heart out because she didn’t understand what was wrong with her and why she felt the way she did. This after screaming at me how she hated her homework and was never going to do it. Those times totally broke my heart. Now, she is at grade level and is able to do the work with minimal frustration and her self-esteem and confidence is just so much better! So, now that I have rambled on let me say that I do appreciate your advice and your perspective. I enjoy reading your posts because they offer alternative views in a very positive way. As I said, I have not ruled out that the meds are a factor.

Thanks again to all of you. The one thing that I have been working on making clear to my daughter is that anger is okay to feel. How you express it is important. I tell her that I don’t care how angry she is that it is inappropriate to hurt somebody else or treat them bad because of it. My heart does go out to her because she is just such a wreck after this and generally she is one of those happy kids who loves everybody.

JenM I am just curious, what med is she on? i only ask because we had difficulty with rage until we got the dose right.

Jen, how I wish I could be of help to you, because you’ve been trying to help me. But my God, have I got an angry daughter on my hands now!!! I feel for you!

Cathryn, thanks for the support!

Tina, she takes 18mg of Concerta. The dr mentioned possibly adding a small dose of ritalin in the afternoon thinking she’s not making it through the whole day on the Concerta. I’m not sure I really want to do that. Anyway, what we’ve decided to do is log what is going on for now and the next appointment in four weeks is later in the evening when all meds have worn off. The dr. could see a big change in her last exam to this one compared to her behavior during the exam and the time of day.

Speaking of tempers did I ever mention what happened during the initial neurodevelopmental exam? My daughter became frustrated with one of the tests she was doing. She told us (dr included) that she’s done and she’s leaving. We were kind of shocked as she got up to leave. She is only 6. I asked her where she was going. She just said she’s leaving and that’s it! Well, she walked out of the dr’s office and into the waiting room. Proceeded to the bathroom and locked herself in there! I was totally shocked, somewhat embarassed, but mostly glad the dr could see firsthand her frustration and reaction to it! When I knocked on the door she told me she was never coming out. I talked to her for awhile and nothing seemed to help. I had visions of calling a locksmith or having to remove the whole door to get her out! I went back into the dr’s office and told her I didn’t know what to do, she’s never done anything like this before! My husband then went and talked to her for awhile and finally—don’t ask me how—convinced her to come out! The dr was great about it and just said something along the lines of now we know where her frustration level is!

We had alot of anger problems, that we didn’t realize were connected to the meds until we stopped them. Your story about the testing sounds like my son—the neuropsych that did the testing described it as a mental energy issue. He works so hard to try to do something, and then just runs out of mental energy to try anymore. At that point he gets irritable, and depending on what happens, angry. I think Levine is the one who talks about mental energy ?? Another suggestion is the book “Transforming the Difficult Child, the Nurtured Heart Approach” by Howard Glasser. We have found it to be very helpful.

JenM

It sound to me like your daughter has a major problem with you. You obviously have one with her.

Have you ever considered backing off the hyper-parenting stuff and letting her proceed through childhood on her terms?

It seem to me that you are the type of parent that likes to frustrate her child. If you keep it up your daughter is going to resent you for placing unreasonable expectations on her.

Do you have any idea the torture she is going through trying to please you? I doubt it. Well, she is.

Get her of that god awful medication and stop “managing” her and try parenting her.

Rocco make sense. Your daughter is at the end of her rope. If you really want to help her you will lower the bar a bit and let her progress at her own pace.

Psycho stims are bad news.

Jen,
I do not agree that your daughter has a major problem with you, and I certainly do not agree that you have one with her. What some people can’t understand, and it is hard for us to convey here, is how miserable our children can be sometimes being “who they are”. If my child had a leg deformity that made it almost impossible to walk, that she struggled stenuously and still made little progress, and I simply accepted her as she was and did nothing about it, I would be thought to be a shelfish parent, and unfeeling parent. When our children have problem of more of an emotional nature, when they have problems with the way their brains function, and don’t function, we often get put into one of two camps, either it is our fault- we aren’t good parents, or we don’t accept our children for themselves. It is our job to help fix these things also, to the best of our ability. It’s very tricky too. There are no clear cut answers b/c our children are individuals, are family dynamics are different, our enviornments are different. It’s such a shame that when we stick our necks out and talk about things that 20, 30, 40 years ago would have been “shameful” to admit and hidden away, someone tries to cut our heads off. You will find the combination of interventions and answers for your daughter, but it will take time and it will be an everlasting adventure. But she will love you for caring, for trying, for making a difference and not taking the easy the way out.

Thanks Roxie, I appreciate your support. As some of us know sometimes our children push themselves harder than we do. Anybody who knows me knows me or takes the time to will know that I am very accepting and open minded in general. But, yes, I will do whatever it takes to give my child as happy a childhood as I can. I will not allow her to suffer with something that would be a truly disabling disability if I can offer her a life where SHE can be more in control, happy, and much more fully functional. Thank you again.

I just read the thread…sorry you got ‘trolled’, JenM! It is really hard to have these people shoving their unwanted opinions into serious discussions, isn’t it! But enuff said about THAT …it’s like death and taxes, unavoidable!

Children like your daughter (I say this cuz I have LOTS in common, tho I’m 44 and only lose it occasionally nowadays!) FEEL things more intensely…the bathroom story was hilarious! Don’t forget that once she has maturity and tools to control herself, that kind of self-determination and WILL shall be a VERY GREAT ASSET…keep Hubby at it, he is the one to send when she locks horns with anyone, IMO…I wish I could have her in my Cub pack, I bet she is a real character. (I always love the characters most!)

I come from a family of screamers, door slammers, tantrum throwers…some still do but I began in my early 20’s to actively learn to defuse my own anger. I won’t be ‘done’ improving til I hit ‘the pearly gates’, but I am WAY better than I used to be. Now, I can do for myself what your hubby did for her — but she has the right idea to a point:
1) TIME OUT!
2) CALM DOWN!
3) THINK — what is the real problem? What can be done about it?
4) WASH face with cold water…(that’s why it’s best to lock your self in the bathroom! LOL…)
5) REJOIN the world…

REally, at 6, the fact that she did not blow in public is pretty good, IMO — you are doing SOMETHING (many things!) quite right! So if she has step 1 and is ready for step 4, you have lots of time to work on teaching steps 2 and 3!

[quote=”Roxie”]Jen,
I do not agree that your daughter has a major problem with you, and I certainly do not agree that you have one with her. What some people can’t understand, and it is hard for us to convey here, is how miserable our children can be sometimes being “who they are”. If my child had a leg deformity that made it almost impossible to walk, that she struggled stenuously and still made little progress, and I simply accepted her as she was and did nothing about it, I would be thought to be a shelfish parent, and unfeeling parent. When our children have problem of more of an emotional nature, when they have problems with the way their brains function, and don’t function, we often get put into one of two camps, either it is our fault- we aren’t good parents, or we don’t accept our children for themselves. It is our job to help fix these things also, to the best of our ability. It’s very tricky too. There are no clear cut answers b/c our children are individuals, are family dynamics are different, our enviornments are different. It’s such a shame that when we stick our necks out and talk about things that 20, 30, 40 years ago would have been “shameful” to admit and hidden away, someone tries to cut our heads off. You will find the combination of interventions and answers for your daughter, but it will take time and it will be an everlasting adventure. But she will love you for caring, for trying, for making a difference and not taking the easy the way out.[/quote]

Asking a child with “ADHD” to keep up with her peers is like entering your child with a bad leg in the 100 yard dash and expecting them to be competitve.

Ok so now she is in the 100 yard dash gimpy leg and all. Let’ try shooting her leg full of lidocaine and giving her the stims that they give to race horses but on top of that heap on a huge dose of guilt.

“Guest” wrote: [Asking a child with “ADHD” to keep up with her peers is like entering your child with a bad leg in the 100 yard dash and expecting them to be competitve.

Ok so now she is in the 100 yard dash gimpy leg and all. Let’ try shooting her leg full of lidocaine and giving her the stims that they give to race horses but on top of that heap on a huge dose of guilt.]

“Gimpy leg”? You’re showing your ignorance and lack of education again. Guess you just cannot help yourself.

Are you comparing life in general to the 100 yard dash?

What would you have these distressed parents of ADD/ADHD children do, just institutionalize them all, since they can’t be expected to “keep up with their peers”? These children are intelligent, creative, and delightful, but need help. And you are comparing them to race horses?

Are you comparing life in general to the 100 yard dash?

What would you have these distressed parents of ADD/ADHD children do, just institutionalize them all, since they can’t be expected to “keep up with their peers”? These children are intelligent, creative, and delightful, but need help. And you are comparing them to race horses?[/quote]

What this poster (guest) failed to comprehend was that what is at issue has nothing to do with “keeping up with peers”, and everything to do with achieving their potential. I think that this ‘guest’ likes to see struggling children, then maybe it makes him/her feel better about his/herself or his/her own children.

Here’s another message of hope. All kids are different and you have to find a book that matches what your kid needs. But, from your descriptions of your daughter, I think this may help.

I have two intelligent, caring boys (pre-school and pre-teen) who have anxiety and perhaps ADD. Both can be noncompliant, irritable, sometimes verbally or physically aggresive, often when we asked them to shift gears, or switch to comply with our agenda.

We’d religiously used consequences for misbehavior. Sometimes they worked— but [u]at times a reminder of a looming consequence seemed to just shut down their thinking even more, and bring them closer to a full-scale meltdown[/u]. Afterwards they just felt AWFUL: guilty, ashamed, and stuck.

:arrow: Our life is much, MUCH better since last December, when I read [b] Ross Greene’s book “The Explosive Child” [/b]. :P Greene’s trained in behavioral psychology, anda now he’s Director of the Collaborative Problem Solving Institute in Dept of Psychiatry, Massachusetts General Hospital.

I was so excited when I got the book — I read till two in the morning, I felt like finally, someone “gets it”, like there’s hope, and that we will turn things around. Greene gives the best explanation I’ve seen for why sweet kids can act stubbornly non-compliant, aggressive — the neurological and skills problems that make them inflexible, and how that leads to “brain lock” and then an explosion. :idea: He even explained why the standard behavioral approach wasn’t appropriate, why — with inflexible kids — it could just make things worse.

His approach is practical, helpful. We started seeing results within a few days. More collaboration, and we had an explosion with either kid, I now KNEW what had happened, why, and could have compassion. By changing how I talk to them (and recognizing the signs of “brain lock”), I get much more flexibility, and a much better relationship. By changing my attitude, I changed my behavior to fit their brain and skill level. It’s still hard work, of course, but at least it’s paying off.

I’ve given the book to my four year old’s preschool teachers. They were mad at him, concerned, and in a power struggle. He felt maligned, stuck, angry. To their credit, they’ve really changed: One week later he bit another kid. They recognized the symptoms of how awful he felt, and helped him get an ice pack and do other pro-social things to help his self esteem. (Then, much later they talked about what had happened, in ways that made it clear they were his consultants/aides). They were even low key when they told me about it. Before we’d educated them about Inflexible/Explosive kids, he would’ve gotten a harsh reprimand, tried to kick them, then been carried, kicking or sullen, to the principals office. And, we might’ve had him on probation.

Instead, things have really improved. The teachers foreshadow transitions, look for triggers, and are much more collaborative when he starts going into “brain lock”. He’s not bit or hit another kid since. He has had much fewer meltdowns, is much more trusting with feelings and willing to be helped when he starts to feel cornered.

I feel so relieved to have had this book!

Thank you Seekingwisdom. I recently went to the library and have a whole stack of adhd books to read through! When I’m done with them I am going to look for the one you suggest!

Once again, thank you. I am glad to hear things have worked out so well for you.

Just thought I would add that my child did the same thing 1st and 2nd grade. The teachers couldn’t believe it when I talked to them because he was always pleasant at school. It all boiled down to being extremely frustrated at school.We called it a meltdown. It was quite intense and even scarey. I was holding him one day after the “meltdown” and I asked him what the problem really was. He said it was hard for his brain to switch from one thing to another and that it was difficult for him to remember the answer because it was like his brain was a runaway train. He couldn’t stop it long enough to get the answer. That really made me understand what his day must be like.We decided to take him out of school and homeschooling has done wonders for him. Good Luck, Jan

Elizabeth, we’re a family of yellers too. Just enough Irish in us to give us the stereotyped temper.

In today’s culture, especially school culture, conflict is avoided at all costs. Well, meltdowns are no good to anybody, but there’s nothing wrong with a little creative conflict. If your child can find ways to express negative feelings before hitting full meltdown, encourage it; the steam can be let out in smaller bursts.

JenM, just a thought: you said your child was frustrated and so forth before medication, but after the medication has helped focus, now you know what the issue is. OK, the thought occurred to me, perhaps this is a learning process. Previously there was just a general haze of frustration; now it is focused and directed. Some discussions and modelling of what to do when X occurs might help. And see if the number of meltdowns reduces over time.

Good thought Victoria. Right now when these things happen I try to help her calm down. We’ve worked on taking deep breathes and counting to ten type strategies. I like your idea of how to approach it. I would also like to see the school deal with these sort of issues a little more. I think there’s also another connection between irritability at other students that builds during the day at school and then comes out at home.

I have to admit we had another medication adjustment about two weeks ago and things have been even more improved. Only about two meltdowns in that period and less anger! Both were at times where I know she was tired. I’m hopeful.

Just want to echo the positive words about Ross Greene’s approach. If you ever have a chance to hear him in person, do it. He spoke for an entire day without notes, and at the end of the day, nobody was ready to leave…there were more and more questions.

The essence of his book, is very simple…”pick your battles”. We found that by changing our approach, we could eliminate many meltdowns. The fewer meltdowns, the better we all felt. It changes the climate in the home and gets the momentum moving in a more positive direction.

As with any book, you take the pieces that work for you and your family. Greene really helped our family.

My ears went up at - she gets angry in school but doesn’t let it out.

What makes her angry in school? Let’ s remember how much time is spent in school - 5 days a week X 6 hours. That’s a fair bit of time - how much of it makes her angry? And what exactly is it that makes her angry in school?

If she can’t let it out in school, it’s got to come out somewhere. I’d want to look in to her school day - but I’d certainly want to gently ask her - what makes her angry in school? Sounds to me like her teacher and/or her school day need some readjusting. Young children shouldn’t be made so angry in school that they need to let it out screaming at home.

Too often we use the phrase ‘anger management’ when we should be looking for the causes of our anger. Anger isn’t a routine part of a young child’s life and it’s worth time to try to ameliorate the sources of her anger as a part of helping her to manage it.

Sara, you are right in asking these questions. From what I can figure is that originally she felt frustration (academic mostly) that came out as anger at home. Now she is doing much better academically so that seems to be less of a factor. However, she can be irritable and that builds during the day and often turns to anger later. Her irritability is at things that don’t upset most children as much—like another child’s book is touching her book, a child accidentally bumps her chair, etc… She says some of the kids bother her but they don’t pick on her or bully her. They just do normal kid things. She does seem to be less irritable these past few weeks. She can also be the same way at home. She told the doctor once that she doesn’t let the anger out at school because she knows she can’t.

Overall, I have seen an improvement and that is good news. I am now more clearly able to see a connection between her being tired. This affects everybody as far as emotional control but just seems to affect her a bit more. Two of our only three or four meltdowns in the past couple of weeks have been Friday nights after a very busy week of school.

We are still trying to sort out if her anxiety is comorbid or secondary. By all previous indications it is comorbid but we can’t really address it fully until we get the adhd under control. Otherwise, how do we really know it’s comorbid? Recently, the anxiety seems to be somewhat better but still pops up from time to time. But, there is also the possibility that anxiety plays a bigger role in what is going on in school as far as causing feelings that build up and need to be later released. I personally feel her anxiety is a contributing factor as it affects her how she feels physically in the crowd of kids down to her feeling stressed about her work.

Hey Jen,

My daughter wasn’t behaving well after school last year in a number of ways. She wasn’t as patient with her younger sister. She was quick to cry. Couldn’t settle into her homework. She has a long bus ride ranging anywhere from 40 min to 1 hr depending on if it is the regular bus driver or a sub. We started picking her up from school and life became manageable again. I think that the bus is stressful for young kids sometimes even if they aren’t being bullied. Also they are totally bored. Toys and food aren’t allowed on the bus. It’s too loud to do homework. So they entertain themselves in the most uncivilized ways. The bus driver can’t see and hear everything that is going on because he has to drive safely.

Terry

JenM, Does your child have sensory integration problems? I ask because your description of what makes her irritable—someone bumps her chair, books touching (which would mean someone was in her personal space)—could be problems for a child with poor sensory integration. Children with this experience discomfort from normal sensory input—sound, touch, etc. Just another thing for you to explore…..

Terry, we live about three blocks from the school. So close that we don’t get a bus and we can walk there in five minutes or so. Somebody always goes up to meet her and walk her or drive her home. I won’t let her walk alone. I have considered that her day is too long. She is enrolled in an academic after school program which was “highly suggested” for her. It has been helpful but does make for a long day. On vision therapy nights homework does not get done and they have been okay with that.

rocco2, I hear what you are saying and that thought has crossed my mind many times. I do believe she has some issues with sensory integration and always has. For example, as a baby/toddler could not or would not walk barefooted on carpet or grass. She still is very particular about how her clothing feels. However, she does not seem to fit most of the other parts of that diagnoses like the social end of it. I hope that makes sense. I had a migraine earlier (which is unusual) but I’m still feeling a bit fuzzy here. I’m thinking her sensory issues are related to the adhd and how she experiences her world because of that and not really comorbid—more of a secondary type thing. Is this possible? Is it possible it’s related to anxiety? There are all of these pieces of a puzzle. It’s hard to know how it all fits together!

OK, here’s another one from personal experience:
I have a some health problems including celiac disease, a nasty allergy-type/autoimmune digestive disorder. This was misunderstood and mistreated for many years.
I had pretty constant abdominal pain, upset stomachs, headaches, fatigue, disturbed sleep, and so on.
During this time everybody including me thought I had a terrible temper. Actually, now I’ve got the disease in remission at least half the time, I have a pretty cheerful personality and a heck of a lot of patience.
But I can remember (and still have some days) when a loud noise, a screaming kid, a rude person pushing me, a spilled drink, could set me right off. The point is that I was already running on a knife-edge barely functioning, and it didn’t take much to knock me off the precarious balance. A lot of time I really wanted to cry and curl up and rest, but when people kept at me I would respond badly.

When I see someone having this problem, I try to hold back my responses and try to find out why they feel so bad. It isn’t always all psychological, even if the person has been convinced that it is.

Victoria,

You are so right!! My neice has crohns disease and before she was

diagnosed she was labeled Manic Depressive. They had put her on high

dose steroids and that is why she seemed to be manic depressive. She

was in a psychotic state from the steroids. Once her crohns was taken

care of (Remacaid every 6 wks) she has been a different person.

Because of all the meds for MD she could barely function and lost her

job. Physical illness can APPEAR to be mental!! Jan