question re Barton & other OG based methods

Hi,

I might be one of the few people who uses Barton (in tutoring, not with my own “children” who are dogs and cats :-)). If you want to send me a private message go ahead.

>i tried giving my 8-yr old the posttest for level 1 to see if we could skip it because i have taught her sequential phonics for over a year. even though i know she knows the concepts visually and that she underSTANDS level 1 already, and probably a good bit of level 2, the auditory memory is really the hard part for her. it is hard for her to remember an auditory sequence and then change one sound to another, but yet visually she can do it with no problem.

I would go ahead and do Level 1. Reading and spelling are primarily auditory skills. Being able to look at a word is nice but what if you have to spell it? If your child doesn’t have great visual memory, she will not remember the patterns.

I will guess you might be able to skip more of level two than level one!

If she passed the screening and you passed the tutor screening she will get this. Perhaps sequential phonics does use on nonsense words. OG programs use lots of nonsense words. This assures you that she really has the concepts, rather than that she has memorizing parts of words.

>i can’t help but wonder “do some kids ‘never’ get the auditory memory strong enough to proceed?” and “just how much aud memory do we require before allowing them to add visual cues?” is there a point at which we determine that a child simply will not gain further auditory memory, and then go ahead and teach them to read?

I have a kid with CAPD that finished this level. I had to repeat the words quite often but she was able to do it. It was hard work. The other books have more fun activities that the kids like a little more. I think that book 1 is work. I would do it for 30 min max and then go and play some of the games. If they are too easy you can change them to work on end sounds or vowels. She should end each session with some success.

>i just wish i could understand how all this fits together, and where (if ever) we decide to shift priorities. i would LOVE to see the progression of how the whole Barton system process works, of how a child with auditory memory, retrieval problems, auditory processing disorder, language disorders (wordfinding, expressive, etc), and visual processing can work through all this, to not only LEARN all those rules, but be able to instantly apply them. even though i’ve always (1.5 years of homeschooling) used sequential phonics with her, and had her read ONLY decodable text, she still is unable to visually process consistently and apply the rules that she DOES know.

Barton does use some tricks to remembering spelling words and patterns. How long have you been working with the program? How many days/ weeks? I have had a dyslexic student in it since Oct. 3 days a week. She is now fluently reading sentences with 3 syllable words and her spelling and reading have all gone up a notch (Cs and Ds to Bs).
BTW, she was reading on a 2-3 grade level. She is also spelling these words.

Basically though the other books (some exceptions in book 2). Review (mostly vowels and listening skills); new teaching (may be new sounds, new spelling rule, something on syllable division whatever), spell words wtih tiles (whole system uses color coded tiles— vowels are yellow, consonants blue, etc.), read nonsense words with tiles, spell nonsence words with tiles; read a set of real and nonsense words on paper; sight words; spell real and nonsense words on paper; a couple fluency exercises; spelling phrases; spelling sentences; and reading a story.
There are some things the kids really like (creating funny sentences with a set of words), and thing the kids don’t like as well. But basically that’s how it works.

>if i walk her through it, she does fine, such as “look at the vowel, what sound does it make… look again, there’s an ‘e’ on the end of that word, so remember that ‘a’ says ___ because of the ‘e’.” now, i don’t have to do that with every word, and most of the time she DOES remember the sounds, but sometimes i do wonder if she retrieves the wrong one. plus she often SEES the wrong letter (“it’s” rather than “is it”) and i sure do wish i could see how all this is going to help her process the text better! it’s so frustrating. it would be great to see video tape of kids who struggle like her, and see tape of their progression thru the program. what a good selling tool that would be!

You are still doing a lot more prompting than you should need to do. I think that Book 1 will give her some of the phonemic awareness skills that she may actually be missing. Also since the skills are taught in a multisensory way she should be able to learn some of these skills more easily.

>can anybody explain how an OG based program such as Barton will help my dd. she has phonemic awareness for hearing a real word (bl/a/ck) and can replace beginning sound for a new word, but if i use the blocks for representing colors, she doesn’t remember which block represents which sound because the blocks have no visual colors on them, so she gets confused with the auditory/visual memory.

Just repeat the “word” for her several times. Repeat the whole “word” as much as necessary. I had to repeat the word several times with one student, but she did get thru the first book.

You might need to prompt her more:
“Sni” repeat “Sni”, how many sounds does that word have?
“Three” then have her pull down 3 tiles. Touch and say, you can repeat the “word” as many times as necessary, it is not a auditory memory task.
Just don’t give her the separate sounds. That’s the part she needs to figure out. Don’t worry about her keeping on recalling the words. Can she do the task if the word is repeated?

In the comparing “words” section you may need to repeat quite a few times. However, remember the ‘words” are only up to 3 letters long. At the end there are real words. For example, instead of just saying the words once or twice, for each set say the word right before she touches it. “Ok this one is “sni”” she does touch and say. “This is ‘sna” She touches it. She has to figure out the different sound. You can repeat howeever many times she needs. Just dont’ give her the answer!

After book 1, it will be easier as there are letters that she can look at.
However the first book, equips the kid with the phonemic awareness skills, she may be missing.

Don’t worry she will be able to do this if she could pass the screening test. If she could not, then you should not be using this. You may want to work on an auditory memory program first like audiobox.

>i will probably use level 1 with her, but it’s frustrating knowing that she KNOWS the concepts, but yet can’t function with the required auditory memory. :roll:

Well if you are prompting her as much as you describe then she may NOT have the concepts and may not really be hearing the sounds but may be relying on visual clues.

>how far should i try it before i decide it’s not working. did anyone ever try it with a child and realize it did not work?[/quote]

The program is guaranteed. That is if both of you passed the screening.
You can also call Susan Barton. There is no extra charge for that and she is very good and helpful over the phone. (Very neat lady btw).

I understand your anxieties but I think that with the explanation I gave (and possibly the advice from Susan) she can do this.
Also you can send me a private message. Click on my name in blue and it will show you. I’d rather not put my email on a public forum like this but will if you just can’t figure that out.

I’d like to know how far she is now? Which lesson?
Obviously CVC words are harder than VC words. And CCV are harder than CVC. But if she is not hearing the sounds, she won’t do as well as if she could. Phonemic awareness is A+ no. one thing.

I hope this helps.

—des