challenging behaviour

Why do some people WITHOUT learning disabilities exhibit challenging behavior and others do not?

Hello. What is your definition of “Challenging Behaviour” ?

Some people with LD histories come off as “tough”, “hard” and
may seem to have “Challenging Behaviour” because they have
experience of being: betrayed, rejected, dismissed, patronized,
harassed, and otherwise put down; and they *_may_* believe that
the other person will not address their needs. To compensate,
they may “go over the edge”, on occasion.
The phrase “rising to the occassion” applies here, but it is a “fine art”
to know how far to take the situation; how many steps to take.
The metaphors and ( allegory? ) apply here ( http://www.m-w.com ) .

I have been guilty of some behaviour which may be defined as
“Challenging Behaviour”; in fact I made a mistake of it yesterday.
An adjunct professor (man) came to the department, and asked to
use another computer (full-timer professor’s) computer. I said no, he
could not use that computer; YET I DID NOT OFFER, QUICKLY, THE
COMPUTER I WAS USING (the secretary’s computer); WHICH IS
PERMITTED USE! I could have said to the fellow: ” Use this one; YET
GIVE ME 2 MINUTES TO LOG-OFF HERE; you may use this computer,
not that one. ”

Social skills are tough for adults with LD, which is why
I read that board, this one ( Adults with LD ) , and Post-secondary<br> Education.

– end –

Patsy, are you one of thsoe people who think that add is like the only ld? I am not trying to be mean or start wwIII but really? I want you to go into detail with this challenging behaviour shite, dear. Are you referring to younger folks? I for one am middle aged and pretty mellow, myself. Takes me a long time to write out to do lists and organise my stuff for school and whatnot, but asides from that I never take out anything that is challenging to me out on others. Really, Patsy, you must elaborate. If you can fogive my pis poor typing, that is. I’ll be waiting dear!

Patsy’s probably a student with a homework question :-)

Yeah, what is ‘challening behavior”??? I quit my job(of three weeks last Friday) and I think there was some ‘challenging behavoir’ involved! I got upset and frustrted by the lack of direction and organization and the number of hours the job entailed….so I bascially said, I’m done, and got a little upset(swearing to myself out loud, etc..), then quit…so, maybe this was ‘challenging behavior”?

I think Sara said it best: ‘Why do some people WITHOUT learning disabilities exhibit challenging behavior and others do not?’

Hi. I agree with Sue. Either Patsy is a working Vocational Rehabilitation
counselor in ( ? Canada or United Kingdom ? ); or she is a student of
Special Education or Psychology. If Vocational Rehabilitation (VR)
professionals were “up to standard”, then we would not have problems
with them. I am a firm believer that it is better for me to help myself,
if I am taught which tools to use, and how to progress.
I am in psychotherapy once a week. Remember: My original problems
were Dysgraphia. I type 40 words-per-minutes (WPM). I have had
problems in Math and Science; not in English or History.

The question is best left to the local experts in Social Work and
Psychiatry. The answer is too long to give here. There are many
answers. I cite my post, previously.

Best regards,

/signed/ Joe Tag @9:04PM E.T.; Monday 1 March 2004 – end –

>> TO: MERLIN JONES
>> FROM: JOE TAG

Merlin –
You really need to make a list of frequently spelled <br>
words; and check your grammar. Write it out on
note paper, keep it besides the computer with Internet.
What is middle-aged, ( LOL ). I am 41, and a non-smoker.
I don’t look my age! How old are YOU????
I hope things are going OK; that you keep a clear perspective
in dealing with College Instructors, and Job Counselors.

Best regards,

/signed/ Joe Tag,Jr. http://www.kean.edu/~cahss/indexb.html

– end –
[quote=”merlinjones”]Patsy, are you one of thsoe people who think that add is like the only ld? I am not trying to be mean or start wwIII but really? I want you to go into detail with this challenging behaviour shite, dear. Are you referring to younger folks? I for one am middle aged and pretty mellow, myself. Takes me a long time to write out to do lists and organise my stuff for school and whatnot, but asides from that I never take out anything that is challenging to me out on others. Really, Patsy, you must elaborate. If you can fogive my pis poor typing, that is. I’ll be waiting dear![/quote]

Joe,

I am still waiting from an answer from the lady who asked of challenging behavior. I was a tad bit harsh though. I would actually like to appologize to anyone I offended form the cold, dark, dank, recesses of my learning disabled heart.

And Joe, I speak, read and write three different languages fluently; I know grammar. I actually found someone dumb enough to hire me to teach a class in the English portion of the GED, I do this when I am not studying Literature and doing research for the John Donne society for their 2005 call for papers and tutoring esl and developmental reading…and working my other job and doing creative writing and researching Whitehead’s Metaphysics of Solidarity and Extension with regards to William Blake as well as Jung’s three theories of religious experience with regards to William Cowper and William Blake…I got mad wicked literature and grammar skills, fellah!:)

On the l.d message board, I feel a little bit of freedom with regards to just letting my piss poor typing skills shine, I have M.S. and typing is getting harder and harder for me as the years go by. Sooner or later I will be using voice recognition software like Jeff Goldblum in the Fly or something…the time is soon to come on that.

However, I do not use job counselors because I have not the need for something like that, if I did I would know how to work with them, not against them. I also work with and sometimes beg with my phd having porfessors, not work against them. In the south it is ingrained in our skulls to work with people politely, horrible culture in that regard.

I can make a list of commonly mis spelled words that I cannot type out well that would be a mile long and I can do it in Spanish, French, and German. And I can do a half bleeped one in Creole and Latin and Yiddish.

It is frustrating to be able to actually recognise words that your hands cannot type out well, you know? At least I can still cypher.

I am soo old. I shall not tell you my age Joe Tag. Soo old am I. I look young too, because I hate the sun. However, I would really love to know why people are thinking this challenging behavior thing? Where is this to go? It challenges me to do my banking, yeah. It challenges me to keep a date book, yeah. But to take that out on others is kinda bad. This is my point, I guess. To take out anything bad on someone else is really bad. I let my challenging behavior fuel me to try better, you know.

And Joe, I am not trying to be mean to you, I actually like you. We could make beautiful advocacy music together, fellah. However, sometimes some folks cannot type, alright.

[quote=”merlinjones”]Joe,

I am still waiting from an answer from the lady who asked of challenging behavior. I was a tad bit harsh though. I would actually like to appologize to anyone I offended form the cold, dark, dank, recesses of my learning disabled heart.

And Joe, I speak, read and write three different languages fluently; I know grammar.

<< you don’t type like you do, like you know grammar >>

I actually found someone dumb enough to hire me to teach a class in the English portion of the GED, I do this when I am not studying Literature and doing research for the John Donne society for their 2005 call for papers and tutoring esl
<< “esl” should be “all capitals” >>

and developmental reading…and working my other job and doing creative writing and researching Whitehead’s Metaphysics of Solidarity and Extension
<< Titles should be underlined __Title__ ; in computerese. >>
with regards to William Blake as well as Jung’s three theories of religious experience with regards to William Cowper and William Blake…I got mad wicked literature and grammar skills, fellah!:)

On the l.d message board,
<< all caps >> I feel a little bit of freedom with regards to just letting my piss poor typing skills shine, I have M.S. and typing is getting harder and harder for me as the years go by. Sooner or later I will be using voice recognition software like Jeff Goldblum in the Fly or something…the time is soon to come on that.

However, I do not use job counselors because I have not the need for something like that, if I did I would know how to work with them, not against them. I also work with and sometimes beg with my phd having porfessors,
<< spelling >> not work against them. In the south it is ingrained in our skulls to work with people politely, horrible culture in that regard.

I can make a list of commonly mis spelled words that I cannot type out well that would be a mile long and I can do it in Spanish, French, and German. And I can do a half bleeped one in Creole and Latin and Yiddish.

<< Mon Dieu! C’est Incredible >>
It is frustrating to be able to actually recognise words that your hands cannot type out well, you know? At least I can still cypher.

I am soo old. I shall not tell you my age Joe Tag. Soo old am I. I look young too, because I hate the sun. However, I would really love to know why people are thinking this challenging behavior thing? Where is this to go? It challenges me to do my banking, yeah. It challenges me to keep a date book, yeah. But to take that out on others is kinda bad. This is my point, I guess. To take out anything bad on someone else is really bad. I let my challenging behavior fuel me to try better, you know.

And Joe, I am not trying to be mean to you, I actually like you. [/quote]

We should just let this drop, eh? Wasting bandwidth and everything aren’t we? Taking time to cut and paste things into M.S. Word is futile. Still. What is this whole challenging behavior thing about? Let us get back to the topic at hand. Or just drop it altogether. Go ahead and cut and paste my response into MS Word. Humbles me so. Whitehead’s Metaphysics of Extension and Solidarity is not a book. MS Word would not know that. In the American South esl is never put in caps, but maybe my University spells it wrong on course offerings and I picked up a bad habit. Maybe MS Word does not know this, eh? I also type far worse than I spell, I actually can spell, but type poorly, my hands are gone because my nerve endings in them are all almost dead, but somehow I can still cypher.

We shall drop this now or you can email me at [email protected] but e mail me as yourself do not filter it with ms word and all of that, that is not what construes logical discourse on a very natural level on a message board or an e mail server. But heck I thnik there might be a typo or two here, I better get out Fowler’s [u]Dictionary of Modern American Usage [/u] quick, man. I could type this out using the most prestine of grammar and vocabulary but why? It is just a message board for those of us with ld. I would rather be myself like most grown adults are wont to act.

…4 March 2004; Thursday; 7:57PM…

TO: Everyone and Merlin Jones
FROM: Joe Tag,Jr.

Vocational Rehabilation Counselors employed by local government,
Social Workers and Psychotherapists, and College Counellors, should
all be more aware of the issues of people with Learning Disabilities.

To communicate properly in your native language, by whatever means, should be a goal. Sometimes fewer words are better.
Sometimes, someone else can “speak” for you; as I have found
elsewhere on this system. The more words are spelled correctly,
and grammar correct, the better impression you make.

–~~~–

Sometimes, I have to take a quick “filter moment” , when dealing with
others, and re-phrase what I want to say.

–~~~–

I can apprecciate a Sensitive Compartmented Information Facility (SCIF);
a quiet and secure room.

–~~~–

People with LD need to make their own “checklists” as they deal with
“Beauracracies”; and confirm whether they and the other person are
following the rules. Sometimes, the civil-servant / beauraucrat does not. __THEY__ are some who may percieve us with Challenging Behavior.

–~~~–

It is meet and right, so to do………

// end of lecture //

/signed/ Joseph G. Tag,Jr.

I got a “C+” .

My problem is when I don’t remember what someone said a second after they say it and when i’m always losing things. Some of my neighbors ask if I’m mentally handicapped when they first meet me and that really pisses me off. I went into my room and cried for a few minutes the one time it happened. Then I picked up my homework ( which I was learning Japanese at the time) and brought it outside and sat down on the stairs. When my neighbor came outside to get her grandson she was surprised that I was sitting there doing homework in another language! Unfortunately her daughter got into the habit of calling me “retard” everytime she got mad at me. I’ve have had to learn to control myself when people tease me like that. I think her problem is that she’s always getting into all sorts of trouble and I think she doesn’t feel too good about herself.

Amber,

I can’t believe your neighbor would treat you that way!! Please continue your studies and don’t pay any attention to those people!!You are MUCH better than that!! My son is 12 and has LD in written expression and processing info. He is also gifted! He is different than his peers but they are accepting of him. All of us have different talents and thank the Lord for that!! Be the best that you can be in the area you enjoy! That is what I’m trying to teach my son. Best of luck, Jan

[quote=”Jan Raper”]Amber,

I can’t believe your neighbor would treat you that way!! Please continue your studies and don’t pay any attention to those people!!You are MUCH better than that!! My son is 12 and has LD in written expression and processing info. He is also gifted! He is different than his peers but they are accepting of him. All of us have different talents and thank the Lord for that!! Be the best that you can be in the area you enjoy! That is what I’m trying to teach my son. Best of luck, Jan[/quote]

Good advice but I would add this. There is no problem when dealing with difficult insesnsitive clods that that can’t be solved with the proper application of a flame thrower.

Joe tag we get the fact that you have a triple digit IQ but your posts are long and tangentle.

I wish I can easily make friends like your son. The only friend i have in school is LD too, but she has known about it all her life since she was born three months premature. And guys don’t want a thing to do with me. After telling one guy about my LD he tried everything to avoid me. :cry: I was told by a school counselor that my problem is low self esteem rather than my LD that is scaring the guys away. She says that since my LD was diagnosed so late in my life i have not developed an “Identity” yet since i’ve let other people define who I am. I really don’t understand what she was talking about by “Identity.”

Amber,

I totally feel where you are coming from, my main man! Ha Ha, I assume you are a gal, but I like that expression. Never let anything anyone ever tells you , like, a negative comment define who you are as a young lady at all. You understand what I mean, honey? If someone calls you a retard, you know you are not one, so just let it go, you know? Never ever let anyone who says such things stand in the way of your development as a young lady.

You alone define who you are. You live your life right, the way your parents taught you, and the way you believe to be right and just and true and no harm will come to you and you will become strong and brave. If a gentleman does not show interest in you becuase you share with him the fact that you are learning disabled then remember one thing…there are more fish in the sea! You will find a nice understanding gentleman friend in due time. Heck I have had the same one for 12 years for goodness sake and I have a really funky l.d.

I do not know, personally, what it is like to have been diagnosed with a learning disability late in life. I was diagnosed all the way back in 1984 when I was in the fourth grade. You probably are still developing your own identity as a young lady. Your learning disability does not define who you are and what you and you alone are capable of doing as a young lady. Actually, you are lucky because a lot of research has been done for a great many learning disabilites so you are lucky to be getting modernised learning assistance.

In the old days, and this is ooms and did busy work and got paddled and all kinds of fun stuff. I did not even learn to multiply till right at the 6th grade! AHH the old days.

Thanks for the advice Merlin.
Recently I’ve been being told to go get help and/or take medcaition here at this site. Some people act as if it’s my family’s fault that I’m the way I am. As I said when you live as a child in a family struggling fancially there are not many resorces out there. When I was a kid the Social Services would have programs for children with physical or mental disabilities or cancer but not for LD. My family was on welfare for a while so we had Medi-Cal and everyone knows how sucky Medi-cal is when it comes to mental health issues. Also the public school teachers saw LD as being a “boys problem” and I was just misbehaiving and hated math.

:x Don’t give me that crap! Sheesh! You sound like a NAZI! My mother couldn’t help it when my father walked out on her for another woman! Not too long after that she recieved an injury which turned into a rare disorder. She wanted to work (and even went to a trade school to get a degree) but when people saw her deformity they wouldn’t hire her. Anyway I’m going to be the first woman in my family to get a college degree so :P to you! I will be graduating in Spring 2005 and will be working in the art museum and gallery design business. No one should judge another person just because they are -or were- poor.

[quote=”Misanthropist”]Amber,

It actually is their fault. It’s called cause and effect. Intelligence is relative to both a persons environment and genetics. If they were on welfare they obviously shouldn’t have had kids in the first place. Whether the cause of your learning disability is relative to your environment, genetics, or both, it’s quite apparent that it’s they’re fault.

Misanthropist[/quote]

Misanthropist,

Sometimes you say some very cool stuff but other times you are a butt plug.

Amber is OK and some people are a victim of the God factor. Her mom got screwed by God which probably menas she is a decent person.

There but for the wrath of an evil god go you and I.

I would suggest that you apply your Ball like wit and logic to the Parenting a CHild with ADHD forum. The low brow self absorbed moms there need to hear from someone like you. They need a reality check.

:D Well thanks for standing up for me Guest!

Yeah you’re right. I’ve been dealt a bad hand by a cruel God. In my family I’m 99% of the time the unlucky one. Over the years I have envied my other relatives because they have had it very easy in life. Can’t help it being the bad luck kid in my family,but a year ago I decided to take matters in my own hands and do things my way. And it seems to be working! :D
At least one thing for sure.My mother has taught me compassion for my fellow person. I have a best friend who is LD and also has epilepsy Another friend has CP and uses a motorized scooter ( I can’t keep up with her on my two perfect legs!) to get around. I have more fun with my disabled friends than I do with so called “normal” people. 8)

…..10:35AM Eastern Time; March 12, 2004; Friday; @ www.kean.edu <br>
The causes of LD are numerous. It is more than “heredity” and genetic; and it is more than the environment. It is probably a bit of both. Family issues have to be worked through. Some parents should not have gotten married; including mine. They were wrong for each other. The kids in that family can do NOTHING about it; they are minors.
It is difficult as it is, to find a good support system—friends.

The kind people of Broadcast station WETA in Washington DC have
sponsored this web-site and Bulletin Board System. They may “bring it down” and restrict access at any time. Let us be kind and civil. Hopefully, in our own communities, we are all trying to improve and progress with the systems we have. Think before you type, and
hit the “Submit” button.

At a local college, you may find many Journals (news magazines) that
inform about Learning Disabilities. This includes Journal of Learning Disabilites, Journal of Rehabilitation, Council for Exceptional Children journals, and others. Some Graduate Special Education or Social Work
students might help you in finding articles. Many college libraries will
let you read the magazines, even if you don’t attend that college.

I use this system, to be a “sounding board”, to ask for advice and
suggestions in how to get along better, get a better situation.
I am not perfect, either. I have my faults too. But I am working on them.

Peace be with you.

/signed/ Joe Tag,Jr.

– end –

:cry: Sorry. I know I got a bit overboard there. Just can’t stand it when people judge my family without knowing our background. I just want information of why I’m the way I am and do not want to talk about putting the blame on family ( unless it’s genetics). What I want to understand is why no one noticed my “quirky” behavior as a kid was a learning disability. Also I’ve mentioned in my posts if diet could play a role in developing a learning disability. Another diet issue is if there are special diets that can improve the brain chemistry of a LD person but will not cause any harm to other organs in the body.

get off the message board please! if you don’t have anything interesting/constructive to contribute, you need to step off and not come back.. you come here and throw insults at people thinking your some witty, highly intellecutal person, its laughable really! your comments directed towards Amanda were OUT OF LIN :x E!

Hey! Doesn’t anyone notice that this topic is “Challenging Behavior.”?
Well it looks as if this “Challenging Behavior” is coming from people who might not even have LD! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

Hi Misanthropist!!
You are SICK!! I’ve read many of your post and all you want to do is stir up trouble! Why? Do you not have a life? Obviously not! We are people that actually want to help each other and our kids!!!!!

Hi Misanthropist!!
You are SICK!! I’ve read many of your post and all you want to do is stir up trouble! Why? Do you not have a life? Obviously not! We are people that actually want to help each other and our kids!!!!!

Yeah, he might not have LD, but he probably has SERIOUS(possible Bi-ploar??) mental illness, if so, then I apoligize.

:lol: :lol: :lol:

For those of you who are coming to the thread late and are confused, especially by some of Amber’s and Cammeron’s posts….

Our dear friend Misanthropist finally went too far…at least one and maybe more of his/her/its posts were deleted. The moderator left our reponses to dear old Misanthropist making this thread weave like a drunken driver.

Oh, well. Makes for interesting reading….

Misanthropist!!

Lawd! Can this person be booted off the boards here? Good heavens! The heck with what you might think are the causes of l.d., I say try to find the solution, not the cause. Try to always do the best you can figure out to do and the heck with everyone else who tries to bring you down. Misanthropist is just being worng, no one read of those posts, please.

Amber, you need to avoid diets. You need a diet as much as a drug addict needs to take drugs to help his addiction. The only thing that is going to seriously impact your brain functioning is not getting enough calories. If you eat from the vegetible, grain, meat, dairy, and fruit groups on a regular basis and avoid surviving on diet pop and candy bars, you should do fine. If you really want to improve your health and overall brain functioning, you need to do some sort of cardiovascular exercise in moderation. This will increase oxygen blood levels, blood flow to the brain, and help to relive stress, anxiety, and depression. You can probably sign up for aerobics or some other activity at you student rec center. My personal favorite is running, since you can do it any time, with anyone (including alone), and there’s no need for expensive equipment beyond a good pair of running shoes. The only problem with running is that it will destroy your joints if your not careful and try to do too much too soon, so you might consider joining a running club.

For problems with concentration, there are several books on the subject. Head over to amazon.com and do a search on the word “concentration”. You might even be able to check out a book from your school’s library if you’re shot of funds. I’ve personally found that disciplines such as yoga, medition, tai chi, etc. can help to build concentration. I’ve also heard that the dietry supplement ginko biloba can help with concentration, memory, and overall brain functioning. You should probably check with a doctor before taking it, though, since it can have some adverse interactions with other drugs.

Hope that helps.

I have actually changed my diet a lot over the years even before I was diagnosed with LD. I have chronic hypoglycemia from being on too low fat of a diet as a teenager. Also I think this diet damaged my brain a bit causing some of my LD’s because I never had any problems with processing information before I was put on this diet.If I don’t eat every three hours I get cranky and can’t concentrate. I avoid eating too many carbs ( I do eat brown rice and rye crackers though) by cutting out all breads, and eat foods with good fats such as nuts, fish, olive oil, and avacados. On top of that I walk almost everywhere since I do not have a car yet. Even if I take the bus I always get off a few blocks from where I am going. On top of this I’m getting back into ice skating again though I’ll be too busy with school to compete or do recitals in this sport. :D Anyway I’m glad misanthrope is gone. Like I said “challenging behavior seems to be coming from other people in this thread.” :lol:

Oh! I forgot! I’m also taking an herbal suppliment called SP-14. It contains valerian,passion flower, wood betony,ginger,hops,skullcap,chamomile, and blessed thistle. :shock: I do not know what these herbs are supposed to do but this SP-14 sure helps a lot! :)
Also this suppliment is vitamin fortified.

Amber, it sounds like you currently have a good diet. Eating smaller, more frequent meals is actually better than one or two big meals. It’s also better to eat a good mix of protein and complex carbohydrates instead of simple carbohydrates such as sugery foods. You also want to make sure you don’t cut out fat too much, since it is essential for your health and actually saiates your appitite more than other types of food.

Exercise is also very important. Walking is a good one since it doesn’t place as much stress on the joints as running.

I’ve also recently started meditating, especially concentrative meditations that increase your ability to focus, is extremely effective at not only improving concentration but also intellectual functioning in general (including memory). Being ADD in addition to dyslexic, I think many of my problems are mostly poor concentration. My mind is often like a person driving a car, talking on a cell phone, and listening to 5 different radio stations all at the same time. I go through entire days without being aware of what I’m doing because my head is so full of thoughts. Sometimes I’ll get home from work without remembering driving home. This is not good.

With some meditation, though, I find that I am more focused and more present. I also find that I remember things easier and can better focus on what I am doing. Since you are at a university, you might seriously consider seeing if there are any groups or classes that teach meditation. There are also a few good books on the subject, such as:

The Fine Arts of Relaxation, Concentration & Meditation: Ancient Skills for Modern Minds. Joel Levey, et al.

Concentration: a Guide to Mental Mastery. Mouni Sadhu. (might be hard to find)

I have the first one and have heard that the second is also good. They are written from the perspective of Buddhism, but are applicable regardless of your religious orientation. The first book actually draws meditative practices from several tradtions, including Buddhism, Taoism, and Sufi (Islam).

The above post was mine. Forgott to use my name.

crhain, nice post! I agree with you on meditation..you sound similar to myself..I meditate(instead of taking medication for ADD)..its sometimes very hard to do, but I have found that if you meditate in the morning(for 10 minutes) and the evening for 10 minutes its a little easier for me. There is a good book called, The Silent Miracle. I would suggest anyone interested in meditation to pick this up. Again, thanks for the enlightning message! :wink:

cameron, I’ll add the book to my list. It would actually be interesting to see if meditation has been helpful for other people suffering from ADD or other disorders that impair concentration.

I think meditation would greatly benefit people who have ADD/LD, etc…bascially, it would benefit everyone, disabled or not. I think there should be a study on this from some doctors or something though, regarding people who meditate who have ADD or LD. It would be interesting to find out what the results were.