punishment for behavior

If you can show that her behavior is ADHD related (impulsivity) they can’t give her a detention for that. Does she have a 504 or IEP, I’m sorry I can’t remember. That is important too, I think that she needs one of those in place. Aside from that, a detention for laughing and clapping her hands?!? Give a kid a break and let her be a kid. She was obviously enjoying herself!

What else would you expect from our public schools?

Post here name and phone number here and I will explain thing to this idiotic teacher. She will toe the line after I speak with her.

Jen, I’m a little bit in shock over this. I have a 2nd grader as you might recall and the worst “consequence” that I have heard about is that a child was sent to the Principal’s office. The child had a temper tantrum because he lost at a board game with another child.

Isn’t there an Aid in the class that could help your daughter act more appropriately. I think that in our school your daughter would have been gently pulled aside and advised that it was time to settle down and listen to the teacher. Your daughter probably just didn’t “get it”?

Maybe you should also post on the Teacher Forum. This sounds too weird.

Terry

You’re right Terry, this is just too wierd. They have these charts with their names and they move them for behavior. They all start out at Great Job and go from there. If they end the day at Great Job they get a sticker for good behavior on their chart. At the end of the month they get to have a party if they have a certain number of stickers. My daughter has gotten enough stickers for two months so far—December and February. In fact, she was student of the month in February. So, she had a bad day and she had her name down to the call/write home spot. The consequence was her talk with the teacher. Then she went out for her reading class and that’s where she got in trouble for talking, laughing, and clapping hands. So if they get in trouble in any specials when they go back to the regular classroom their spot gets moved down. This meant my daughter went from note home to detention. I think on their chart the principal’s office is very last. So, they are telling me this is school policy so that’s why they have to do this.

Roxie, no iep or 504 at this point. We had a meeting in December where they said all accommodations were being made and they were. We are supposed to have another meeting because we agreed to set up a 504 for next year because that is when standardized testing starts. That way she can have extended time and breaks for testing. Also, I want to make sure that all of the really good things her teachers are doing this year they do again next year with a new teacher. What kinds of things do you know about relating to behavior can be put into a 504? I know about academic accommodations but what do you know about that would specifically target situations like this? It does sound like she was a little too happy, doesn’t it? My father asked me if she would have received the same punishment if she stood up and started cursing in class. The answer is yes.

Guest, thanks for the laugh! I wish I could do that! I would actually give you a few names and numbers! I did sign the form a little while ago but wrote a note on the form. It’s not my final word or letter because I really do need to calm down a bit before I can do that. I just signed it and wrote, “for the record, with all due respect, we feel that detention is developmentally inappropriate as a punishment for a first grader. Our child does not understand the concept of detention.” Also, this form was not in triplicate but FOUR copies. I was supposed to keep the fourth copy and send all of the others back. I kept the second copy (rebel that I am) and wrote on there I was doing so because the yellow (fourth) copy cannot be read because it’s too light. I will keep everything in writing and I want a copy that is ledgible should I need it at a later date!

Anyway, thanks for the support here. My husband is so calm about all this that I was beginning to think it was just me who saw a problem with this. Like I said, I don’t expect my child to be excused for inappropriate behavior for any reason but I don’t see how this detention is helping her to learn anything.

Jen
I know that www.wrightslaw.com has info on behavioral interventions (and more), also, check your state’s board of ed for information on behavioral interventions. And I’m pretty sure that ldonline has articles on behavioral interventions. Good luck on that 504 for next year. My dd is living proof that a new teacher can ignore what a past teacher has done and documented needed to be done.

You are not alone and your feelings are extremely valid!!!! Your daughter is a typical ADD child who should be encouraged. Their reaction was out of line and unreasonable. It seems that the teacher and principal may not handle normal elementary school disruptions well. Have you contacted the Superintendent?

By the way, what 7 your old child NEVER claps, laughs or talks when they are not supposed to? Isn’t that part of the learning experience? Instead of helping her to read social cues - she may now be more hyper-sensitive and under/over-react. I’m also curious as to how the teacher is reacting to her in class - are the other children noting a difference?

We color down at our school and my son finally got his first full month of all greens! He’s not really a behavorial problem - more of an off-task issue. Of course, the first two days of this week he had to color down for “not following directions.” I believe he tripped over another student in the lunch line. My son is such a rebel!!!! (Not)

Can you sense my irritation with this issue? I feel so helpless and don’t know how to get reality across to these people that are influencing my children.

By the way, I feel your shock. My son was sent to the principal for not sitting correctly (one foot up off the floor) and poor handwriting skills (perfectly legible - just some spacing issues). He was 7 and in 2nd grade AND a lefty. I had to meet with the principal because my son was acting like a “normal” boy.

I asked why they were being so ridiculous and they didn’t understand how I could feel that way. What kind of example was I setting for my children?

Our ISDs/Principals have lost it. Plain and simple. Children are no longer allowed to be children. They are to be adult robots that spit out information without understanding. Geez, you would think these people had some level of intelligence? I’m afraid it is starting to drizzle down to the teachers who are feeding into this unrealistic Utopia crap.

It will not change until parents set up boundaries with the school. Doesn’t that sound radical?!

What gets me is that there was no inapproriate beahvior on the part of your daughter.

Sounds like her teacher could use some Midol. It also sounds like your daughter is due an apology.

Children should be shown respect is adults want respect from them. If what you say is true this teacher should be fired.

We use the same system …but at grade 5!!! And there its okay. Our system has, instead of detention, parent must come in for conference on the last one!! Student has to do something like a physical fight to get to that one.

Schools have moved to management systems/business models. Its not about kids its about following an “efficient model”..this particular one aids record-keeping of behavior problems. It is not designed for primary. this school is more interested in uniform management systems than sense. All of these plans have a caveat for sense written in eg. if offense is severe it can go directly to the most serious consequence. It is the adults job to exerise judgment and professionalism. But don’t be surprised if they say “just let her do the time, it won’t hurt her. ” they are interested in not thinking, no waves. They have abdicated responsibility to the “sytem”.

As to the teachers being afraid this will destroy the system - nonsense. One of our teachers has posted prominently in her room that ” Fair treatment means everyone should get what they need. Everyone getting equal treatment means some do not get what they need and that’s NOT fair.” I thought it was courageous of her.

In the end - what’s best for the child. If she is at this school next year, do you need this principal’s support? Yes, its wrong but pick your battles. If its an afterschool detention go and sit with her and bring her a happy meal. If its an inschool detention - you described her missing class then it would be better described as an inhouse suspension. then I really would buckle on the battle gear. I would start by pointing out that an earlier step was to notify parents. If they were really following the plan, that step would have to be completed before continuing to the next step. Inhouse suspension is for serious offenses at higher grades the theory being sending them home is just giving them a holiday. I have never seen one below upper elem/middle school and its for things like serious vandalism to the school, repeated violence to another, etc.

Sorry but you have a lousy admin to deal with. Hope and pray you get a dynamite teacher next year.

My son is in second grade and every time I turn around hes getting ISS/in school detention. Means nothing to him. I ask the teacher what exactly they do in ISS and she said they do sentences or school work? What are they supposed to be learning from this “consequence”? As far as my son goes, he feels pretty much like he is just being sent to another room to do his work, no actual punishment. What kills me too is that these kids get a whole whopping 15 minutes of recess, by time they line up, etc its probably about 10 minutes. Alot of the time they are punished by not getting any recess at all. I think the teacher spends more time writing little notes in their agendas then she does teaching. He was written up for pulling a piece of paper out of his nose and announcing “I picked a winner”. Although not appropriate to do in school, he is just a 8 year old boy for Gods sake. Lets write them up for laughing, talkings, clapping, joking, not sitting in one spot. Its getting beyond ridiculous.

Sonshine, I think if I was your son’s teacher I would have a hard time not laughing myself! I am still too agitated to respond to the school right now. I am going to check out Roxie’s suggestion and also do as was suggested earlier and go over to the teaching adhd for recommendations. I want to go in with intelligent suggestions on how this could be better handled. I am thinking that my daughter will serve this detention. I like the idea of going to sit with her! But, this will be her first and last detention. I am now waiting for the fallout on my very restrained notes. I will address this with the principal, school, and whoever else and request that follow up meeting. At that time we will get that 504 in place with some behavior accommodations that will EFFECTIVELY deal with the issues. I will also consider placing her in a private school if that will help. That’s a whole other consideration because I would want to make sure the choice is really beneficial to my daughter.

As far as the aide, they have what they call 3/7 teachers. They are certified teachers that work 3 hours out of 7 in the classroom. My daughter’s 3/7 teacher also runs the academic afterschool enrichment program. So, on top of this detention thing which I dealt with during the day my daughter came home yesterday very upset. With her anxiety issues there is very little I need to say to her about a bad day at school. She upsets herself so much and gets so worked up over things. Anyway, I get this note written in the agenda that says– Dear Mr and Mrs……..
………. was hitting two times today. I warned her. If it happens again I will have to write her up. Thank you. Mrs………. So, I went through the roof on this one. I have no doubt my child would hit another—but NOT maliscously (sp?). Let me say that she is usually not a problem behaviorally. So, for this note I also wrote back and told them I needed more info in order to deal with this effectively. For example, what were the circumstances? Why was she hitting? How did you (teacher) handle it? and What exactly does it mean to “write her up.”? I refrained from much more than that. There was also a chocolate milk issue that I will not even get into right now!

So, as you all can probably tell I am still steaming here and trying to sort it all out. The school has been excellent academically up until now. I am also investigating what other factors may be involved here. Meaning, I know that yesterday was not a good day as far as having an anxiety issue the night before. I know my daughter missed a lot of sleep and I know it happened at least once last week. Maybe there is a link here.

By the way, the school did acknowledge in our meeting earlier in the year that my daughter does need help with social cues and issues. My first question to them is how are they addressing this? From what I understand the guidance counselor has not met with my daughter as she said she would. Sounds like it is time for another meeting and I’m starting to ramble on here! Thanks again, I will keep everybody posted.

JenM,

Your daughter needs the 504 “attitude” right now. She needs help not punishment. Can you get some help privately as well? Maybe you can turn the detention into a “lets help my daughter” session. You want the adults to all be on the same page, a united force or your daughter will get confused. You might want to also post on millermom.proboards23.com because there are several moms with 504 plans.

Terry

P.S. I wrote a huge post and lost the whole thing because the page expired!

Terry, I think you are right and the more I think about it the more I think that’s how I will address the whole issue. The detention is kind of secondary to what really needs to be addressed.

I did get a response from the school regarding the hitting. What happens is that when my daughter goes out for her small reading group there are about six kids that go to a small area to work. Their books are touching and my daughter gets upset about this. The teacher said she explained there wasn’t a whole lot they can do and everybody’s books are touching. So, when the other kids were closing their books they knocked in to or bumped hers and she punched their hands. So, what is being described to me is irritibility with an impulsive reaction. Both things that are relevant when dealing with a child who you know is ad/hd. This explanation is totally different than a child who is out to hurt somebody. I also wonder why they don’t find a bigger work area. I am sure there is somewhere they can go in that school. I wrote back and explained why this was important information and why we have to work together on this. I also questioned what it means to be “written up” but haven’t gotten a response yet. To sum it up I also said that I think we can find other ways to help my child.

Gosh Jen, some kids can’t be crouded. There is a medical diagnosis for it. My sister has the condition as part of her OCD but some people just don’t like people in their space.

Put some of this smack dab back on the school Its obvious they feel your dd has horrible issues-so, what are THEY going to do to solve them???

They were supposed to have her see a counselor and have not followed through? Ouch! Definitely bring that one up

Perhaps she needs a full time one on one aide if she is so unmanageable and inappropriate. Perhaps that horrendous clapping wont seem quite so worrisome if THEY are expected to put forth money and time to help

I would be polite and sound “teamish’ but defninitely let them know where they are dropping the ball and you KNOW they are dropping the ball

Terry, that is a good point. I have seen her irritability many times so I have no problem picturing this. I know about her impulsive reactions too—hitting, rocks through windows, juice dumped on her sister, etc. However, she does have some anxiety issues and crowding is something that does bother her at times—though it is MUCH better than it used to be! Even church gatherings used to bother her and she hates the circus!

marycas, that will be exactly my approach. I am seeing this after a few days more of an issue about my daughter’s overall needs than an issue about this detention. The discussions here have been very helpful to explore different options. It was also brought up at our previous school meeting about her feeling crowded and overwhelmed. For example, she said sometimes she’s late coming in for lunch because she can’t walk in the crowd of kids that go running for the door when the bell rings. She gets a look of panic on her face during school performances and she has to walk down the center aisle in a crowd of kids in an all purpose room filled with people. I am going to check on these things because I had thought they weren’t still happening but maybe they are. Anyway, I think the whole approach is that I am doing what I need to do and what have they done? What are they going to do?

I am also thinking that these are all issues that need to be brought up with the doctor. All the reports from school had been good so when we were just there in February that’s what we reported. Now come to find out it seems like some of this has been going on for awhile so we will discuss it at the next meeting. However, what saddens me is that my daughter is so happy in general. What she got in trouble for is “talking, laughing and clapping hands.” This just sounds like she was very happy.

Again, thanks for the help. I’m still sorting this all out. It should be so simple but it isn’t.