Comments on Rewards

I have used Rewards and like it. However, I normally use it only with students who are reading on a beginning 4th grade level and up. Before that level, I prefer using Phono-Graphix and other methods that insist on decoding sequentially left-to-right.

What are your concerns?

Nancy

I’m an orton-gillingham person, so Rewards seems incredibly fast-paced (3 sounds in one session!!). Also, their technique doesn’t seem to really tell kids where the syllable boundaries are, at least not in the first few lessons (I loaned my book out so I can’t check that). I’ve always taught kids where to break the word exactly; Rewards kind of fudges it. But, I really do like the constant practice of the strategy, the structure of the lessons, the continual review and reinforcement, and the flexibility the program promotes. The girl I’m using it with tests at a high 5th grade level for reading comp (she’s in 6th) and knows tons of words by sight, including nearly all in the first two lessons—automatically. However, she spells and decodes new words poorly. To Rewards I’m adding some phonemic analysis tasks w/manipulatives, more o-g type spelling and the reinforcing of some phonics skills that are especially weak, using o-g.

How much improvement have you seen with this program? If it really does what it says it can do in just 20 lessons, I’m thrilled.

Rewards combines Orton-Gillingham with Phono-Graphix techniques. The PG side of it is what you are noting.

PG moves much faster than OG, for a number of reasons.

The “word parts” terminology of Rewards is actually the “chunking” technique of PG. PG works from an oral language basis, for which syllable boundaries have importance only as chunks of sounds. This approach eliminates the need to teach traditional syllabication rules for reading. The word “middle”, for example, makes as much sense orally divided into “midd-le” as it does orally divided into “mid-dle”. More elaborate syllabication rules are not necessary for reading, although they can be helpful for spelling. (However, even for spelling, it makes considerably more sense to chunk words into morphographs rather than syllables, and then combine the chunks according to morphographic rules — which are much fewer and much more consistent than spelling rules.)

So far I have gotten a minimum of two years’ improvement in both decoding skills and fluency using Rewards. I have seen posts from classroom teachers who also report these kinds of gains in classroom situations.

Nancy

Nancy,

I was wondering what you might think about what to do with my son this summer.

He has global LD with an alphabet list of diagnoses. At this point, he reads at grade level but not easily. In other words, he still tires. On a really good day he can read 6 or 7 pages of the latest Harry Potter book. On a bad day, it is one. He avoids reading and we still read some of his school work to him.

He miscalls words though—like thorough, through, though, and sometimes easy things like bale will be bal. He can’t spell outloud at all—says he can’t see the letters. Is generally a very weak speller—we did six months of AVKO which did seem to help him some. Some words he spells phonetically but wrong at other times it is just amazing what he comes up with.

He has had tons of therapy (FF, NN, IM, TLP, PACE, vision therapy) and two PG intensives. There are still visual issues—large print helps and NN has chipped away at some of these issues. A behavioral optometrist told me (like NN therapist) that more vision therapy would not help—it is integration.

I debating between doing Rewards and AVKO with him this summer or trying a LMB intensive focusing on Seeing Stars. There is still something hanging up his reading and I know he does not visualize letters. I have tried some Seeing Stars at home with him and this is one thing I can not do. He will not air write. I know that he will never be strong auditorally because of APD, although he much better than he used to be. I am not strong auditorally either but I compenstate with strong visual skills, which he does not have.

He can decode multisyllable words and if it weren’t for the way he tires and slows down and miscalls words, I would be sure that Rewards would be the way to go. But there is still something to do with processing going on with him.

Any thoughts?

Beth

Beth,

Have you tried VisionBuilder software? If not, I would start him on that and see if it helps. The ideal would probably be 10 minutes twice a day using primarily the “moving window” exercise, but even 10 minutes once a day would probably be helpful. My speculation is that it would help automate some of the visual processing of text, making reading easier and less tiring. If I am remembering correctly, VB allows you to choose font size as well as reading speed, which could be very helpful in your situation. I have a 12yo student with severe problems somewhat similar to the ones you describe, and this is what I am trying with her.

Have you ever tried reverse spelling? This is an oral exercise in which you spell a word and then he has to tell you what the word is. This is the best exercise I have found for developing visualization of letters and, eventually, syllables. Once a child is solid on three-letter words, you can start adding in four-letter words. This exercise can be done using just two or three minutes at a time in the car, etc., and ideally would be done two or three times a day. You can use the same words repetitively, and mix in just one or two new words each session.

I have had really good successes with Sequential Spelling and Rewards, and I know almost nothing about Seeing Stars, so I don’t feel I can give good advice on an either/or choice in that area for the summer. My inclination is to think that if your son refuses to air-write, though, it may be because he knows it doesn’t help him. I have seen some children who do not seem to benefit from air-writing (or from writing in sand and other materials) — even though these are very old tried-and-true approaches that work with most kids.

Although Rewards would not help any underlying processing issues, just making the decoding of multi-syllable words more automatic might help with the fatigue factor. If I knew more about Seeing Stars I could make an intelligent comparison between the two programs. If SS contains a variety of visualization exercises, then I would think it would be preferable to Rewards at this stage. However, if it’s primarily visual memory drills and air-writing, I wonder if it would help.

Nancy

Nancy,

Thanks for your response.

We haven’t tried Vision Builder specifically but we have done other vision software as well as vision therapy. He is doing better now than he was last summer due to three things 1. developmental lenses—he skips far less with them 2. PG intensive—like you said about Rewards, it made decoding easier and thus he stopped skipping as much and was able to handle smaller text, as well as handle multisyllable words much better 3. certain NN exercises—these have worked on vestibular integration—it was very striking, when he automated these, his reading fluency improved.

Seeing Stars aims to teach children to visualize letters starting with airwriting but going then to visualization. It developed in response to the shortcomings of LIPS–there were certain kids who just didn’t automate decoding. Someone described PG as inbetween LIPS and Seeing Stars—more visual than LIPS but not as much as Seeing Stars, more auditory than Seeing STars but not as much as LIPS.

I will try your exercise of three letters–I have tried to get my son to visualize to learn spelling but the problem is that his spelling words are longer than he can visualize. Maybe we can build up with this approach. (His weekly tests are up and down a bit but his retention is pretty bad—he will consistently flunk unit tests). I really don’t think his refusal to air write reflects his understanding that it won’t help him but rather that it seems silly to him. He also has some dysgraphia—now low normal following IM—but forming letters correctly isn’t one of his ideas of a good time. So he is very sloppy in his air writing. I am not sure this does much good so I have given up on it.

I am less convinced about vision builder—I think his vision issues are integration issues and addressing just vision will have marginal benefits at this point, but I will take a look at it.

I think the fatigue stems from the tremendous effort it takes my son to read. He can sound like a totally normal kid—fluent and the like. He just can’t sustain it. And you are right, anything that makes the process easier will help with the fatigue. The question, perhaps unanswerable, is what will make the most difference at this point.

Beth

Hi Beth,
I have had a similar experience with my son’s reading, which is at gr. level now, but as with your son something is hanging the process up and making it less fluent and automatic than it should be by now.

I have read your posts with interest for a long time because our sons seem to share similar challenges. (Mine has APD, NVLD, possibly ADD.)
Spelling is also a huge concern—part and parcel of the visual processing difficulties.

We are not as far along the therapy continuum as you are having done FFWD, IM, PG to date and just beginning a combined PACE/Neuronet program.

Integration and visual iprocessing ssues are at the base of my son’s difficulties too. In a recent re-assessment, the CTOPP showed weak long term memory for phonological info. which our audiologist feels is at root a visual not an auditory processing issue for him.

Have you considered MTC? It is one we may do, since it is deadly intensive and works on nonsense words I believe. You could maybe precede it by visiting the rapid naming parts of PACE again?

My vote will be for Seeing Stars beause of its intensity for spelling but, like you, I’m not sure it’s one I can do. My guy thinks air-writing is stupid too; he might do it more readily for someone else. Are you near an LMB clinic? Or have you trained in it? (I am no where near.)

Have you done Read Naturally? I am going to order Rewards for my classroom and trial test it though I won’t do it with my son until after PACE/Neuronet and MTC if it’s needed. I love PG but I don’t think it’s going to dot all the i’s for my guy either in reading.

Good luck with your decision. I will stay tuned. I have found your posts to be so inspirational and informative over the past two years.

JanL

Hi Jan,

Yes, our kids are a lot alike. Hard cases, with both visual and auditory issues as well as that stubborn integration!!

We are in the same town as a LMB clinic. I have resisted it because of cost—and I do think the broader therapy approach I have taken has been the right one for him. His difficulties have been much broader than just reading.

I have thought of MTC but I think I would do Seeing Stars first. We did PACE a few years ago, probably too early in the game, and totally burned out on their auditory processing exercises. He just couldn’t do them. One mistake I made was not to do listening therapy e.g., TLP first. We later did it and he could do auditory processing exercises in days that we couldn’t get through in months. The other thing about MTC is its emphasis on nonsense words. I think it is good in many ways but my son does amazingly better when words are in his vocabulary. I have read articles that have suggested that a broad vocabulary is one way to help overcome reading deficits. His vocabulary is quite good. I think the words in his vocabulary works with the PG approach of trying it different ways. That works for him.

I will tell you though that I have a friend whose daughter, like our sons, had broad deficits and PACE and MTC brought her reading up to grade level and fluency. It didn’t do it for memory though —later she did some NN and that was much more effective for her than PACE.

I haven’t used Read Naturally either. His issue isn’t quite fluency though because he reads quite fluently, at least for awhile. I know though that reading and hearing the stories is integrative so it too might help.
Again, the issue is what might help the most.

I follow your posts with interest too. There is a group of us with complicated kids!!

Beth

Beth,

Seeing Stars does not have the child airwrite everything. It gives tons of decoding practice, too. Lots of nonsense words in single syllables of increasing length and then multi-syllable. I woudl say this should come before REWARDS unless he is rapidly decoding all single syllable words.

Janis

Janis,

He rapidly decodes things he knows!!! But then I guess that isn’t decoding!! I notice the biggest change post PG intensive in multisyllable words. He really does fairly well. But he still messes up a lot of the smaller words and miscalls them. At a some level, it seems like he doesn’t have a visual representation of what things he knows to use when confronting a new word, if that makes sense. I suspect you are right that it makes the most sense to do Seeing Stars before Rewards.

Beth

Nancy,

I tried your idea of reverse spelling today and it worked! I gave my son words off his spelling list and he was able to do. He told me “know, kneel, wrestle” ect. I was really surprised at the later. It seemed to wear him out so I don’t think it was automatic at all. But maybe this will help. And he wasn’t as adverse to it as he has been to me trying to get him to visualize words in his head.

Beth

To Janis,

I remember reading a post of yours about poor phonological memory and how Seeing Stars addresses that deficit. The student I’m using Rewards with has a very weak phonological memory (measured by CTOPP), yet air-wrote her way through some of the other CTOPP tasks, w/low-average scores. She says she visualizes words easily and uses that strategy to spell. I strongly considered SS for her until she told me this; also, I’m limited to a certain # of sessions with her. She can decode most one-syllable nonsense words well, with a few pattern exceptions. Could you elaborate more on the phonological memory—SS connection? I’m not trained in SS (LiPS and V/V, though), but have it and use parts occasionally with other students.

Thanks!

I am not very good at explaining this, but I’ll try. I think building the symbol imagery is a compensating factor for kids with poor phonological memory. For example, if you were to give 5 sounds (one syllable)segmented aloud, a child with poor PM might have trouble retaining those sounds in memory to blend them correctly into the word or syllable. If he uses visualization techniques, then that gives him a tool to be able to retain those sounds in visual memory. You definitely do not use air-writing thorough the whole program. That is just a tool to help the non-visualizer to get those letters pictured in his mind. Then there is just tons of practice, which I believe some kids need if they are ever to be fluent. I actually could take the Seeing Stars training again. It is actually more complex than it seems on the surface. But I think that it has valuable aspects for a child who is not yet automatic enough. The LMB director in the city near me told me that they never do LiPS alone without Seeing Stars anymore. And I have also heard that research will soon be coming out supporting the symbol imagery component.

So for me, I use a decoding program, then go straight into Seeing Stars workbooks (which are cheap) for decoding practice. I would save REWARDS for after Seeing Stars, I think. (I do not yet have REWARDS as I don’t have a child that high level).

Janis

Nancy,

I love your spelling idea! That definitely forces the child to exercise auditory memory and visualization, hopefully!

We are so focused usually on segmenting and having the child blend sounds, that I really hadn’t thought of doing it with letters for spelling. But it is the same principle as showing the Seeing Stars syllables, taking it away, and the child has to say the syllable/word and then the spell the letters.

With your idea, you could have the parent spell the word, the child says the word, and then do the SS questioning to be sure they are visualizing by asking, what is the last letter you see?, the second?, etc. Then you could say, spell it back to me. I think this would be a super way to practice spelling words!

Janis

>I remember reading a post of yours about poor phonological memory and how Seeing Stars addresses that deficit. The student I’m using

I think Janis sort of alluded to this but SS is not used with kids with poor phonological skills (alone anyway). It is not the phonology that would be weak for using SS, but the ability to visualize. Basically it is for the kid who has can decode but has difficulty reading fluently because the kid has to decode anew any word he comes across.

They use sight words in an interesting way. At some point, every word becomes a sight word, as we are not just decoding every single word anymore.

So I think you would teach decoding first. (I know LMB uses both together. I don’t actually know how that is done.)

>Rewards with has a very weak phonological memory (measured by

I think that Rewards requires a 4th grade ability to decode.

>CTOPP), yet air-wrote her way through some of the other CTOPP tasks, w/low-average scores. She says she visualizes words easily and uses that strategy to spell. I strongly considered SS for her until she told me

Actually sounds like maybe she does *not* need SS. Of course I have never seen the kid.

—des

Janis and Des,

Thanks for your feedback. I’m not using SS with my student; she actually reads fluently near her grade level, but gets stumped on new words, mostly multisyllable. So I’m addressing phonics gaps with o-g, then having her do Rewards, which is fast and which her parents can help her do, as it’s so scripted. That symbol imagery develops as a compensating factor for weak phon. memory is logical; I’m giving her lots of nonsense words w/spelling practice, phonics review, too. After lesson 12 in Rewards she starts applying the strategy to real reading (for which I can’t wait!). What’s good is I can use her symbol imaging abilities to reinforce the phonics she’s learning. I’m also doing oral and manipulative p.a. activities that correspond to any new phonics I introduce outside the scope of Rewards. It’s definitely for students who have most of their phonics skills in place—they cover multiple sounds in one session, which is tough if you don’t know any of them. Nancy has seen lots of improvement with it; I’ll keep you posted!

Good luck and let us know how it goes! I’m sure I’ll need REWARDS eventually!

Janis