IQ scores

How funny those emoticons showed up!

The score on digit span is eight!

Janis

What is the processing speed?

Coding is decent on the IQ test…… what is her exact problem with reading??? is it comprehension or decoding the words she reads?

This child bears some resemblance to my own child, although the specific nonverbal weakenesses are different. My child’s lowest score was picture completion and block design was 12. This child was just the opposite. But like this child, my child did very poorly on object assembly and overall performance score is considerably weaker than verbal.

The relatively low similarities and high information suggests a kid who isn’t good at conceptual thinking but excells at collecting facts. It looks more of a NVLD profile than a classic dyslexic. Assuming decoding isn’t an issue I’d look at things that build verbal and nonverbal reasoning skills. I worked on these with my son last summer and I think it helped. EPS has a book that I think you recommended Janis called Reasoning and Reading that I found good. Critical Thinking Books has a series called Building Thinking Skills.

Visualization is often an issue with this type of profile and V/ V or mindprime might help with that.

You also might look at NVLD profiles on the internet and see if the child seems to fit. My child doesn’t—there certainly is a range of severity in nonverbal weaknesses and not every one has them at the level of a syndrome. We have found that many of our child’s problems have a sensory basis/motor basis and therapies that address that level have been successful.

Beth

How old is this child and what grade? What are the academic problems, math/ attention/ behavior/?? This does not look like language-based LD on this info…

Thanks for the replies! let’s see if I can answer the questions.

Patti, they don’t do the processing speed part. Seems like I have heard those scores aren’t great on reliability, but regardless, the scores I listed and the WJ-III for achievement were all they did.

The child is in third grade, age 8, SAR. Yes, definitely not a primary language based profile which is why I need help!

She has gone thorough PG this semester to brush up on advanced code, and her word attack score was good. She scored in the 40+%ile range on the Test of Word Reading Efficiency which measures word attack and word ID timed for fluency. So it’s well within average, just not strong. Reading comprehension was the area she had the 13 point discrepancy. Seems like there was an 8 point discrepancy on math reasoning. Computation isn’t strong either.

Beth, yes, I thought that Reasoning and Reading would be good for her! I am also going to recommend Language Wise for the verbal weakness. Thanks for the other ideas as well. It is interesting her scores are similar to your son’s. I’ll probably talk to you some more about that.

Thanks!
Janis

Beth,

I know this is off-topic, but my child has sensory issues as well; I’m also part of a support/research group investigating this area. Would you be able to elaborate on your son’s presenting issues and therapy routes/results? Thanks either way!

Also does she read for pleasure? The more she reads and discusses what she reads with people will increase her compreehension and reasoning skills too.

MM214,

Why don’t you click on my name and send me an email? I’d be glad to share but don’t want to hijack this thread that way.

Beth

Patti, I will suggest the reading and discussing with her mom. I think that is a great summer home activity.

Beth, that Critical Thinking Company has some super books! I already had the VP skills 1 but I think this child needs VP skills 2. Plus, I LOVE the Building Thinking Skills books! I know at least one other child I am going to use that with this summer along with Reasoning and Reading. He is not LD but scored on the 90’s across the board on the WISC and has poor reading comprehension, so he can use some general strengthening. Reading Detective looks good, too, except that some kids may need the visualization work first.

Janis

Hi guys–Just like a bad penny. I’m back. Had a free few minutes and saw this post.

Since all of the Performance scores are “technically” close to the average range, one must be very cautious about interpreting strengths and weaknesses from them.

Since this child’s average score on any subtest is 9 (add scaled scores and divide by 10—number of subtests), the strength/weakness indicator would be about 3 points (a little more if only 6-7 years old). So, any score below 6 or above 12 would be considered a weakness/strength. Now, you see that statistically, all these scores are very similar—except for block design. It appears that this student has a weakness for visually-modulated abstract thought (or doesn’t perform well under timed conditions.) You might check with the examiner for notes on whether the examinee was getting the patterns correct, just not doing it in time to score points. That happens often.

I think it is interesting that the lowest verbal score also requires abstract thinking: similarities.
However, since this score is within the confidence band (error of measurement), one cannot say that it is a “weakness.” It is still in the average range.

More later. Kids now.

Gosh, Susan, we need you to stop in here more often! I really mean that!

I thought a 21 point discrepancy between verbal and performance usually indicated a problem. I may not know what to do to strengthen those performance areas, but I do think mom should have the WIAT done to see of they can get the 15 points for LD placement in reading comprehension. At least she could get some help and testing modifications.

Janis

Any time there is a big spread between the “domains” (VIQ and PIQ), we’re sure there is a difference in how this student acquires information and can comfortably demonstrate learning. Now, can we say with just this measurement (aka the IQ test) exactly what are the strengths and weaknesses? Sometimes. Not this time.

So, we keep looking. Sometimes with other standardized assessments and sometimes with observations and criterion referenced testing.

More data is needed on this student.

Boy, I dislike this new format. Does it take the time to review posts. What were these folks thinking when they did this?

Hi, Susan,

Yes, the new format initially takes some getting used to! But I actually sort of like it now! You sort of learn which threads you’re following and just go to the last page and read the newest posts.

I do hope you will visit here more often. That has been the great strength of this particular board… to have expert teachers, tutors, and experienced parents who can share ideas. YOu are a wealth of information!

The LD teacher at that child’s school called me this evening and told me she was going to make a referral for an OT screening or eval. So we may be able to get her some help from that direction if we can get her placed LD some way. Our state does allow for an alternative to the 15 point discrepancy, so we can go that route if we have to. But I still think it would be easier if we just give her another test and see if we can get the discrepancy.

Janis

Looking at those scores, the child has a clear confidence problem. SHe has too much of it. Most of my kiddos find some way to *bomb* coding — it’s timed, you have to have fine motor skills, it’s an arbitrary code that you have to figure out right away, you have to scan back and forth — and if she’d just done a little worse in it, there’d have been enough difference to qualify. Ah, the numbers!
That aside, there does seem to be a consistent pattern of having trouble with abstraction adn seeing relationships, and much less trouble with quickly learning straightforward facts. IS this a kiddo who likes things explained and does okay once she knows the ground rules?

Sue,

I don’t know too much other than she is in danger of failing both the reading and math end-of-grade tests. I do think her reasoning ability is poor. But there is some visual-spatial problem. Mom said she can’t make those woven pot-holders and will never do puzzles like her siblings. I am borrowing a WIAT to give her in the next few days. She would be retained in all likelihood if she doesn’t get an IEP. And I think the statistics show there isn’t much to be said for 3rd grade retention. Go figure that 3rd grade is the first required “gateway” test that children must pass to move to the next grade.

Janis

I’d dig out & read up on the official policies — most of them have a loophole for these cases that they don’t tell parents about; some other avenue towards qualifying for services besides an arbitrary score. (I would even suggest getting somebody to look over the test protocol and make sure it was scored properly — I could count on one hand the number of reports I’ve looked at where coding was a relative *strength,* though they did tend to have profiles otherwise similar to this one — stronger on information than similarities, etc.)