More questions...

First of all, to measure progress in decoding, you’d look at the word attack score. The word ID score alone is not enough information. But that definitely is not good to see the standard score fall.

The goal and the method for measuring progress are two different things. You have every right to ask for normed reading testing yearly. The Woodcock Reading Mastery, the Woodcock Johnson III achievement battery, or the WIAT will yield standard scores on word attack, word ID, reading vocabulary, and comprehension (subtests have different names in each of those tests). I would insist on those 4 measures each year as well as a fluency measure such as the GORT-4. Oh, and spelling should be tested as well.

I wouldn’t toss out the Wilson just yet. It may be that it is not being implemented properly and that may be the problem and not the method itself. It is one of the better methods actually. And if the teachers are trained in it, then that is far better than asking for some other method that no one is trained or experienced in. How much direct Wilson instruction a week does he have? Is it one-on-one or in a group? It may be that he needs more intensive, individualized instruction. This is the direction I would be pursuing.

Janis

I agree with Janis on the Wilson. I think she asked the pertinent questions. If your kid got it 2 times a week (or once) with 8-9 kids in a group for about 45 minutes it isn’t going to do much. It is not the system at all but the conditions under which the system is used.

Some factors: amt of teacher training. The teacher has to have some training. Having the book/ materials around is good for about 0. There are a number of schools doing Wilson under that dubious set up.

Age of kid: 3rd grade is the lower end for Wilson— though there are Wilson sets now available for younger kids. But they must use those.

Number of kids in the group. The larger the group the harder it is for the kid to get any meaningful instruction.

amount of time: If they say 45 mins twice a day in a group, you can reasonably think it is more like 30 min. Get materials set up, get kids settled, get kids going, etc.

—des

He began Wilson in the third grade, by a certified Wilson provider, for 45 minutes 5 day a week in a group of 3-6. The Letter-Word score I spoke of is just one example of many thay went down. I guess my questions are: 1. Given the all the right conditions does Wilson work for everyone? 2. Have you ever heard a school say a child made progress because his raw scores went up yet all of the rest of the scores (SS and Percentile) regressed significantly? and 3. What would you do if this were your child?
Thanks again, Carol

I forgot to add that he has had this program for the past three years (3rd, 4th and 5th grades; 45 minutes per day; certified Wilson provider; 5 days per week; 3-6 at the same time). Also some of the other students in the program with him are making great gains.

You ask what would you do if this were your child — well, I would do some one-to-one supplementary instruction, either do it myself or get a tutor. Whoever tutors would need to know about phonics-based instruction and about reading in general; you don’t want a fun-with-books tutor who will contradict the good that has already been done.
When I start tutoring I sit down with the student and have him read connected text to me, from a graded book at a level he is supposed to have mastered. With experience, in two pages or so you can get a good grip on where his weaknesses (and strengths) lie. Then I *totally leave* fighting with grade-level work for a while, until the gaps are filled in. I work reviewing phonics — nearly every student needs book 2 on code for groups of more than one letter, and all of them always need book 3 on multisyllables and variants in the code; and I work on massed practice at a near-mastery level for fluency. I also do a lot of work on handwriting and directionality, an area where I am seeing more and more weaknesses over recent years.
With supplementary work to fill in the gaps that he has missed, he should start to progress more in the classroom work.

You ask what would you do if this were your child — well, I would do some one-to-one supplementary instruction, either do it myself or get a tutor. Whoever tutors would need to know about phonics-based instruction and about reading in general; you don’t want a fun-with-books tutor who will contradict the good that has already been done.
When I start tutoring I sit down with the student and have him read connected text to me, from a graded book at a level he is supposed to have mastered. With experience, in two pages or so you can get a good grip on where his weaknesses (and strengths) lie. Then I *totally leave* fighting with grade-level work for a while, until the gaps are filled in. I work reviewing phonics — nearly every student needs book 2 on code for groups of more than one letter, and all of them always need book 3 on multisyllables and variants in the code; and I work on massed practice at a near-mastery level for fluency. I also do a lot of work on handwriting and directionality, an area where I am seeing more and more weaknesses over recent years.
With supplementary work to fill in the gaps that he has missed, he should start to progress more in the classroom work.

IT sounds like his group has been going too fast for him, perhaps? Is there another group? One of the most important elements of Wilson and the other O-G programs is that you teach to *mastery* — something tells me that the group has been taught the curriculum, and the kiddoes who’ve been able to keep up have been making the great gains.

No one approach works with every child. A program can be great — really wonderful — and not suit the learning style of an individual child.

Why do we continue to try to make the child fit the program? There are multiple reading programs available. Why not pick one that fits the child?

Three years of Wilson under these conditions is too much. If I were your son, I would be extremely frustrated.

If your only option is to get the school to provide something else, than I cannot be of help. If, however, you are willing and able to pursue other options, I would recommend that you find a good Phono-Graphix tutor and try that. At the very least you will know after three to six one-hour sessions if the approach is working or not!

Phono-Graphix uses a different approach than Wilson — “synthetic phonics”, or sound-to-sight — that tends to work very well when more traditional sight-to-sound phonics approaches (such as Wilson) do not work. Most children can reach grade level decoding skills in 12 to 18 one-hour sessions with a PG tutor (in combination with daily one-on-one homework with a parent).

As good as Phono-Graphix is, it too does not work with every child. However, it’s a great program to start with because it’s success rate is very high (better than 90%) and you find out very quickly if it’s going to work or not. Just three to six one-hour sessions should show very significant gains. If not, you know that you have a child who likely needs a more intensive program. In that case, you start looking at Lindamood Bell LiPS, PACE/MasterTheCode, and other more expensive options.

Nancy

Well, imo, there isn’t anything wrong with Wilson. It’s the presentation of Wilson that’s the problem and I’d agree with Janis, gosh this gets scary. :-) However, that said, I think that the school is not going to do better than this. His intro, sad is it may be, will help him get started in another OG (and possibly another program). So I would go to private tutoring. Given how little Wilson he is getting, I don’t suppose it would matter much what program as long as it is systematic explicit phonics. PG might be good for him but I don’t know the particulars. The thing is there is nothing wrong with WHAT he is getting it is HOW he is getting it.

—des

I also do believe there are kids who need more than a school can provide. Some will need daily one-on-one instruction. Some parents choose to homeschool and educate themselves to provide the remediation. Some hire competent private tutors. I just don’t think you’re always going to get the same results in a group instruction program regardless of how good the program is. But after three years, the point is well taken that he might benefit from a new method since he is probably burned out with the Wilson. Waiting a teacher at the school to be retrained (and gain experience) in another method will waste your child’s valuable time. So I vote with those who say to seek outside help.

Janis