ADHD student- need some guidance

:While it sounds to me like more than ADHD might be going on here, the first thing I’d say is that 20mg. of Ritalin is a remarkably small dose and well under what any normal sized 7th grader usually takes. Unless this kid is really remarkably small for his age, he’s undermedicated and can’t get much help from his Ritalin.Medicating a child is a parent’s decision and clearly these parents have decided to do that. Does this student have an advisor or case manager? Someone needs to give the parents a call because the parents and the child’s doctor deserve to know his medication isn’t working. At 20 mg. that should come as no surprise to the doctor. Do they want him on medication or not? If they do, he should be on the right dose for his size to enable the medication to be effective and help him control his behavior.Having said that, what is up with the selective memory stuff? Who buys that? The social worker? His teachers? I’ve heard a lot in my time but I’ve never heard before that a kid routinely kicked out of every class for his behavior then says he can’t remember any one of those instances. Selective memory! I’m a big advocate for students but this kkid is handing someone the biggest line I’ve ever heard.If his memory problems are that significant, it’s journal worthy and a serious issue. There have been a few people with no short term memory but there is textbooks on amazing human aberrations of the mind. If this kid has one, he should be seen by the guru Dr. Oliver Sachs in Boston who is the expert on such extraordinary memory issues.Before going to reduced day, someone needs to ask this kid if he wants his school life to be like this. Blow past his nonsense or the social worker’s nonsense that he doesn’t remember. This kid sounds very angry and might actually be happier with a reduced day. But he deserves to be included in the loop of that discussion as certainly do his parents. What do his parents want? Do they want a reduced day?If not, they need to get to his doctor and get him the help from his medication that he deserves.One of my students is ADHD. Lately he has been having a difficult
: time in almost all of his classes. He is in 7th grade and is
: routinely kicked out of classes every hour because of his outright
: rude, and disrespectful behavior towards teachers.: I spoke to the social worker and she has spoken to him about when he
: is kicked out, what is going on. He has selective memory, and
: really has no idea why he is kicked out. He is on 20 mg of Ritalin
: a day, and I am unsure of how to deal with him. For instance some
: solutions are, 1. reduced day 2. behavior plan (not sure how to do
: one for him): Teachers are fed up with his behavior, and I want him to succeed, but
: being a first year teacher, I am not sure what to do.

I spoke to the young man, he is very angry with me. He feels he shouldn’t be in “special ed.” That is too bad he feels that way. He was very angry when I brought up the idea of him going half a day. I asked would he rather go half a day. He said no, so forget about that. I think he feels picked on, and really despises the special ed teachers, because he also has felt this way in the past about other special ed. teachers. He doesn’t think he is ever kicked out of class, but I am going around to the teachers to get a behavior profile on him. He really hates that I am doing this. I almost want to say forget it. What I am trying to do won’t help anyone. But as his spec. ed. teacher, is that the right thing to do? If a kid doesn’t want help, do I still give it to him? Also, sometimes I feel like I am less of a teacher, because I only “teach” one class, and I go into other teachers classrooms and offer support services. I don’t “teach” in these classrooms. This same student told me one time in a class I was supporting that “You are not a real teacher, I don’t have to listen to you”. This is the most frustrating part of my job. I am not seen as the real teacher. Thank you for responding.Ps. his mother is coming in today, hopefully I can speak with herMedicating a child is a parent’s decision and clearly these parents
: have decided to do that. Does this student have an advisor or case
: manager? Someone needs to give the parents a call because the
: parents and the child’s doctor deserve to know his medication
: isn’t working. At 20 mg. that should come as no surprise to the
: doctor. Do they want him on medication or not? If they do, he
: should be on the right dose for his size to enable the medication
: to be effective and help him control his behavior.: Having said that, what is up with the selective memory stuff? Who
: buys that? The social worker? His teachers? I’ve heard a lot in my
: time but I’ve never heard before that a kid routinely kicked out
: of every class for his behavior then says he can’t remember any
: one of those instances. Selective memory! I’m a big advocate for
: students but this kkid is handing someone the biggest line I’ve
: ever heard.: If his memory problems are that significant, it’s journal worthy and
: a serious issue. There have been a few people with no short term
: memory but there is textbooks on amazing human aberrations of the
: mind. If this kid has one, he should be seen by the guru Dr.
: Oliver Sachs in Boston who is the expert on such extraordinary
: memory issues.: Before going to reduced day, someone needs to ask this kid if he
: wants his school life to be like this. Blow past his nonsense or
: the social worker’s nonsense that he doesn’t remember. This kid
: sounds very angry and might actually be happier with a reduced
: day. But he deserves to be included in the loop of that discussion
: as certainly do his parents. What do his parents want? Do they
: want a reduced day?: If not, they need to get to his doctor and get him the help from his
: medication that he deserves.: One of my students is ADHD. Lately he has been having a difficult

: Knowing that he would prefer to be in school the entire day, gives you a card to play if you want to work it that way with him. Then he needs to be cooperative or he’ll find himself in school half a day.I think he feels picked on, and really
: despises the special ed teachers, because he also has felt this
: way in the past about other special ed. teachers.I think you’re missing his point. Children may say they hate special ed teachers but what they hate is that they’re special ed. Ask yourself, who would like to be special ed? Would you? He doesn’t hate you or his other teachers even if he thinks so.Underneath anger is always sorrow or fear. What makes him sad? A lifetime in special ed. would make anybody sad. Who celebrates that their learning style is a challenged one?He doesn’t think
: he is ever kicked out of class, but I am going around to the
: teachers to get a behavior profile on him. He really hates that I
: am doing this.Of course he hates that. Who would anyone like someone going around asking questions about them? It feels like a violation of privacy. You might be doing the right thing but that doesn’t mean he’s going to like having it done.I almost want to say forget it. What I am trying to
: do won’t help anyone. But as his spec. ed. teacher, is that the
: right thing to do? If a kid doesn’t want help, do I still give it
: to him?Of course you do, as long as you can be sure that it’s helping him. Why did you begin this crusade? Hopefully not to make a name for yourself among the older teachers but because you thought you could bring a new perspective to this old problem.Also, sometimes I feel like I am less of a teacher,
: because I only “teach” one class, and I go into other
: teachers classrooms and offer support services.Ah.I don’t
: “teach” in these classrooms. This same student told me
: one time in a class I was supporting that “You are not a real
: teacher, I don’t have to listen to you”.That one should always be answered with, “You’re right. Only schools say you have to listen to a teacher and in life there won’t be any teachers anymore. Thank you for not listening to me because I’m a teacher. I telling you these things because I care tremendously about you and I’m worried about you. I hope you listen to me because I have good advice but if my advice doesn’t sound good to you then don’t listen to it. If you have better advice for yourself that will keep you happy and out of trouble, then follow that. But so far all I see is that you’re in trouble and you don’t look very happy to me.”This is the most
: frustrating part of my job.That’s a shame that that is the most frustrating part of your job but you’re new at your job. That need for authority is not uncommon among new teachers. When you find the children’s sadness to be the most frustrating part of your job, you’ll find that perceived authority or the lack of it doesn’t bother you anymore.I am not seen as the real teacher.You will be when you have real advice and are able to show your students your real caring and your ability to put the student above yourself. But that’s very hard at first.Did you go into teaching to “teach” or to minister to children’s needs? I know a great many teachers who went into teaching to teach. If you did as well, I’m sure you’ll get your chance. If, though, you’re one of the rare ones who went into teaching to minister to the needs of others, you’ve already got your first opportunity in this poor child who is so clearly unhappy.Good luck to you and him.: Thank you for responding.: Ps. his mother is coming in today, hopefully I can speak with her: Medicating a child is a parent’s decision and clearly these parents

: *******I really like what you had to say to me thank you> I know I shouldn’t take things so personal, but I deeply care for how my kids feel. And because I am their “protector’ in a sense, I want them to see me for help. *** keep reading, I wrote more******: I think you’re missing his point. Children may say they hate special
: ed teachers but what they hate is that they’re special ed. Ask
: yourself, who would like to be special ed? Would you? He doesn’t
: hate you or his other teachers even if he thinks so.: Underneath anger is always sorrow or fear. What makes him sad? A
: lifetime in special ed. would make anybody sad. Who celebrates
: that their learning style is a challenged one?: He doesn’t think: Of course he hates that. Who would anyone like someone going around
: asking questions about them? It feels like a violation of privacy.
: You might be doing the right thing but that doesn’t mean he’s
: going to like having it done.: I almost want to say forget it. What I am trying to: Of course you do, as long as you can be sure that it’s helping him.
: Why did you begin this crusade? Hopefully not to make a name for
: yourself among the older teachers but because you thought you
: could bring a new perspective to this old problem.********I am not here to make a name for myself or to be a hero. I think that this student is behaving this way because, he probably has learned that he would rather look like a bad kid, than a dumb one.Also, sometimes I feel like I am less of a teacher,: Ah.: I don’t: That one should always be answered with, “You’re right. Only
: schools say you have to listen to a teacher and in life there
: won’t be any teachers anymore. Thank you for not listening to me
: because I’m a teacher. I telling you these things because I care
: tremendously about you and I’m worried about you. I hope you
: listen to me because I have good advice but if my advice doesn’t
: sound good to you then don’t listen to it. If you have better
: advice for yourself that will keep you happy and out of trouble,
: then follow that. But so far all I see is that you’re in trouble
: and you don’t look very happy to me.”: This is the most: That’s a shame that that is the most frustrating part of your job but
: you’re new at your job. That need for authority is not uncommon
: among new teachers. When you find the children’s sadness to be the
: most frustrating part of your job, you’ll find that perceived
: authority or the lack of it doesn’t bother you anymore.: I am not seen as the real teacher.: You will be when you have real advice and are able to show your
: students your real caring and your ability to put the student
: above yourself. But that’s very hard at first.: Did you go into teaching to “teach” or to minister to
: children’s needs? I know a great many teachers who went into
: teaching to teach. If you did as well, I’m sure you’ll get your
: chance. If, though, you’re one of the rare ones who went into
: teaching to minister to the needs of others, you’ve already got
: your first opportunity in this poor child who is so clearly
: unhappy.*****I actually am not concerned with teaching math, history, etc. That isn’t my job, my job is to make sure my kids are comfortable and feel successful in the regular classroom. Everyday I learn more and more about how these kids view school. Many of my kids hate it and struggle, I am their guide. They want me to help them to succeed, and I tell you what, nothing makes me happier than to see them succeed in a class. Sometimes I get lost in where I am, what say do I have in the reg. ed. classroom? I love helping my kids. I really do. Thank you for providing me with a different perspective.
: Good luck to you and him.

I am an ADHD adult..I am also a school counselor in an Alternative School where I work with students like this every day. When I read your remark about not feeling like a real teacher, I had to stop and respond. Rebecca, it is you, and others like you who ARE the real teachers. You are looking at the total picture of an individual child and examining what he or she needs. Too many people in our field have lost that ability, if they ever had it. Their students have become numbers and any who present a problem or don’t fit the cookie cutter mold of the perfect student are forgotten and ignored. Try very hard to hold on to this way of teaching as you grow in your career. Our “throw away” children need more people like you.

: The fact that you are not the regular teacher can be a tremendous boon in your work. Look on it as an opportunity. Someone else is giving them perhaps inappropriate assignments and playing the bad guy. You can play the good guy. Except that, with your great feelings, it isn’t an act. It’s real. You don’t need to have say to help people. It’s what you say to them that’s important, not what say you have over them.I would also encourage you not to read over much in this ADHD kid’s behavior. He’s ADHD and on 20 mgs. of Ritalin. ADHD adolscents can be very challenging kids. Some physician thought this student would benefit from medication and his parents had to have agreed for him to be on it. Medication is a parent’s decision but in this kid’s case, he’s not receiving enough medication for it to be helpful to him.The behaviors you see as possibly emanating from a need to establish a different identity for himself but just be uncontrolled ADHD in a 7th grader. While continuing to believe that medicating a kid is a parent’s decision, when was the last time his dosage was increased?Sometimes we look for complex answers when a simple one would serve.********I am not here to make a name for myself or to be a hero. I
: think that this student is behaving this way because, he probably
: has learned that he would rather look like a bad kid, than a dumb
: one.: Also, sometimes I feel like I am less of a teacher,: *****I actually am not concerned with teaching math, history, etc.
: That isn’t my job, my job is to make sure my kids are comfortable
: and feel successful in the regular classroom. Everyday I learn
: more and more about how these kids view school. Many of my kids
: hate it and struggle, I am their guide. They want me to help them
: to succeed, and I tell you what, nothing makes me happier than to
: see them succeed in a class. Sometimes I get lost in where I am,
: what say do I have in the reg. ed. classroom? I love helping my
: kids. I really do. Thank you for providing me with a different
: perspective.

: One of my students is ADHD. Lately he has been having a difficult
: time in almost all of his classes. He is in 7th grade and is
: routinely kicked out of classes every hour because of his outright
: rude, and disrespectful behavior towards teachers.: I spoke to the social worker and she has spoken to him about when he
: is kicked out, what is going on. He has selective memory, and
: really has no idea why he is kicked out. He is on 20 mg of Ritalin
: a day, and I am unsure of how to deal with him. For instance some
: solutions are, 1. reduced day 2. behavior plan (not sure how to do
: one for him): Teachers are fed up with his behavior, and I want him to succeed, but
: being a first year teacher, I am not sure what to do.Dear teacher:Remember, all actions must be reported to the parent(s)/ guardian. I am not quite certain based on your comments if this is typical or atypical for the student to be rude- what does his IEP say about his behavior this time last year???I consider this odd behavior, especially at this time in the school year. Students tend to acclimate within the first two months of the new year. Your student is most likely acting out because: 1) he is bored/ not being challenged 2) he is not comprehending the work- frustrated because he is slower than his peers or 3) problem at home/ personal lifeadolescents are going through ‘the change’ and the more consistant you make your classroom ( predictable- continuity) the betterchange his seat,If you are his casemanager, have all his teachers place him front and center! He needs to do class work- the less distractions the better. It’s March! Demand respect- and if this does not work- involve the principal and parents every day until it does- Your classroom teaching is for the children who ARE paying attention, not for the ONE who is not- take this principle with you every year you teach- trust me, it works …if you have any questions- let me know

:I know very little about Ritalin, but his mother said that my student has a heart murmur, and the Ritalin affected this. If this is true or not, I am not sure. She would only put him on 20 mgs. His mother told me over the phone, that he didn’t like me because it felt that I didn’t like him. I told her it can be hard to show you like someone, when they are constantly testing you and being disrespectful. But I do keep that in mind now. I am trying hard to think of positive things about him, and I am trying to treat him with a lot of patience and kindness. So far that is working. When he is disrespectful I simply tell him that I don’t like to be treated that way and when he is ready to treat me respectfully, I will gladly help him. When he acts out in the reg. ed. teachers room, I will try to keep him on track, but I really feel it is the reg. ed. teacher’s responsibility to send him out, etc. I don’t want to be stepping on toes, in the teacher’s room that I am supporting. Thanks, RebeccaI would also encourage you not to read over much in this ADHD kid’s
: behavior. He’s ADHD and on 20 mgs. of Ritalin. ADHD adolscents can
: be very challenging kids. Some physician thought this student
: would benefit from medication and his parents had to have agreed
: for him to be on it. Medication is a parent’s decision but in this
: kid’s case, he’s not receiving enough medication for it to be
: helpful to him.: The behaviors you see as possibly emanating from a need to establish
: a different identity for himself but just be uncontrolled ADHD in
: a 7th grader. While continuing to believe that medicating a kid is
: a parent’s decision, when was the last time his dosage was
: increased?: Sometimes we look for complex answers when a simple one would serve.: ********I am not here to make a name for myself or to be a hero. I

What about different meds? I would definetly have the school do an official behavior plan, there is one. Look in to other meds, some meds can make the problem worse, and it may be that there is something else going on besides just one problem. Should look into a psych eval, the school can do it.

It sounds like you’re on a good track with this interesting student. Sometimes they need a friend more than anything else, they need the feeling that someone in the school is on their side as it too often feels to them that school is not on their side.

He’s lucky to have found you. Good luck with him.

Hi Rebecca,

You’re doing your job well and I hope you will not be too hard on yourself. Is the social worker meeting with this student regularly? Is she included in meetings with parents and teachers? Social workers have different training than teachers, but those trained for school social work also have taken education courses and should have familiarity with special needs students. They can often see a problem from a little different perspective than the teachers, and can add their ideas to dealing with the child and also the FAMILY. It sounds as though this student is doing everything in his power to AVOID staying in class, and is refusing to accept responsibility for his behavior. What is going on at home to hold him accountable for the chaos he causes in one classroom after another, day after day? Is he getting the professional counseling he obviously needs? Despite the best efforts of dedicated teachers, this child is refining his manipulative behaviors and this will not help him with his academic work. It will divert him. One teacher can make a difference, but cannot fix problems the family has to deal with. I suggest you try to keep the social worker involved and have her talk with the family. Also suggest that she set up a “group” at school for a few troubled students, so they can talk about new ways to manage themselves. There must be other students who could use some intervention. Good luck! JJ

I agree with the other poster that you’ve got a manipulative kid on your hands. And I don’t think you can “demand respect” from him. I guess you know how an IEP can limit your ability to impose consequences for bad behavior.

What do his parents think? If they’re nonplussed about it (I’m assuming that they know about it), then I just don’t see anything putting the breaks on his behavior unless you and other school personnel are able to work something out within the IEP framework.

Is there a chance that acting up in front of other kids is shameful to him? Then keep him in public (with other kids as an audience) when possible.

One thing that can get to a kid that you care about is “You’ve disappointed me.” It lets him know that you care about him and know of his ability to do better. It also lets him know what your standards are and that he is expected to live up to them.

But if he’s acting up all the time, then maybe he isn’t able to listed to that.

Good luck!

It is fascinating what you say about the kids not looking upon you as a “real teacher” because I had a rather similar experience as the resource specialist at a school located on the campus of a “children’s center.” This is the first stop for kids that are wards of the court, before either returning to their parents or going to a foster placement or some other placement.

I was subsequently transferred to another similar school in the same county run system. When I returned to the first place last Friday, picking up some materials that had been left behind, several staff and students told me that I was sorely missed and that my absence left a void. My point is this: you and I are making a tremendous difference in the lives of some very needy children…these are children that need to be saved because they are indeed “teetering on the brink.” They are potentially a total loss: either dropouts, or part of the juvenile justice system, or drug abusers, or something similar. They are a small group, but very very needy!

There are indeed some kids that say they do not require your help. Sometimes they are the ones that need your assistance the most urgently. The operative term might be “denial,” like an alcoholic denying the problem with the bottle.
I had a 15 year old student that said he did not need my help, and he was reading at Grade level 1.7!

Tell them “yes I am a real teacher, and I teach real lessons. I also give real rewards to my best workers and real consequences to students that misbehave.” You can also accentuate the positive and tell him that you have taught one kid today, or one kid this week, and that kid learned to do “X” whatever “X” maybe; writing an essay, say, or the times tables. And isn’t that great? Especially if that kid has been struggling for a long time with those concepts.

Re the young man and his anger: try to rephrase it with him; that it is really cool that he can get extra one on one assistance from a qualified teacher, and that it might help him to be better prepared for the challenge of high school, high school exams, graduation, to get better grades, etcetera.

The book by Joan M. Harwell (“Ready to use information & materials for assessing specific learning disabilities, Center for Applied Research in Education)
suggests that we tell the kids that their brain’s neurons may require more repetitions before the neurons start moving closer together and making the connections. However, eventually the connection will be made, and it is okay if one child requires five repetitions and the other child requires thirty. I am fond of telling the kids that there is nothing wrong with their brains, it is just that each person’s brain works differently. In other words, you are not the defective model that the factory quality control inspector overlooked!

Good luck!

Does he have an IEP? If not why? Get one and address what type of behavior plan can be implimented by ALL THE TEACHERS he has…not just you. Is he just ADHD or is he also ODD?

Have you talked with the parents? Or just the social worker?

It is great that you want to help this young man. Don’t let the teachers that are burnt out put water on your fire….but this will not be easy or an overnight success.

I have seen things as simple was having the parents cover material the night before to prepare a student for class (not teach, just go over … highlight the material), improve self value as they understand, can perhaps add valuable comments in class with the advance insight, have less homework as a result.

But that isn’t the answer alone. You need someone to observe him, class, perhaps run some tests and develope a program for him to be used by all his teachers. Most accommodations are far less hassle than the behavior of a child not accomodated.

Go for it.

On the medication issue. Some children as they become young adults actually have reverse reaction to the medication R. that you mentioned. Keep in mind that all R is is legal Speed. Perhaps his meds and alternatives need to be revisited.
There are other alternatives but medication without accomodation is not going to produce the results you are looking for.

There is a reason for the disrespect and rude behavior. Most often this type of behavior happens because student is wanting to get to a more comfortable spot. If the teacher can connect with the student in a positive way first..maybe he will work “for her/him”
I am an Adaptive Behavior teacher (2nd year) I have seen just about everytime the student acts out to get away.
Another idea is that the student could attend partial periods..asking him I know you would be able to make it say 15 or 30min. most often they will do this reluctantly—but will do it..then conntinue work outside the class..and definately reward him for staying without incedences.
They also need attention..they are going to get it either way..dso if you plan on givng it without demand..etc. he will most likely be more compliant.
http://www.ldonline.org/ld_indepth/behavior/hearts_minds.html
This is a website that contains an article on the emotio

http://ericec.org/faq/ldsped-x.htm
This is an Eric website that gives several links dealing with students that qualify for Special Ed.

http://www.ldanatl.org
Learning Disability Association has information on disabilites with several different links for more information.
Fact sheets focusing on Early Childhood Intervention..FYI focuses on new Legislations and law links..very helpful

http://www.ldanatl.org/articles/adhd/school.shtml This has a list of strategies dealing with ADHD students.

http://www.ldonline.org/
This is a good web site for Learning Disabilities..this is great for teachers, parents, and children that are LD.
There is a search engine, and links to information for each appropriate age.

Hey Rebecca,

You can hear all kinds of things…but, the kid is on a low amount of Ritalin—he really is! Trust me, you can hear all kinds of advice and it is so easy for people to get off on this track and that track, etc. and it gets so complicated that everyone is sort of stuck. Meanwhile the kid does not understand what is happening to him and he hates the world and starts acting out all over the place. As a special ed teacher and a parent of two grown ADHD kids (who by the way are very different!) I’d see if the parents can get that Ritalin adjusted. THEN, if there is no immediate improvemnent…THEN, I’d look for other reasons. The best thing you can do in the meantime is let the kid know you care and that you hear him!! Keep us posted!

Sue

Brenda,

I have a son who is 7 years old, he has ADHD. He is already attending private school where the ratio is 14:1, and they are still having problems. My husband and I are relucant to put him on medication but we keep running in to walls. Which say we have no other chooses. What bothers me the must is that his an out cast among his classmates and he is often sad. I go up to his school 2-3 times a week to assist in keeping him focused. I read your comment that you are an adult with ADHD, counselor and you work with children with ADHD. I wanted to know what have been your findings and if there are schools for children with this disorder.

Thanks

Tesha