multi-step commands

I was just reading today how many kids with ADHD have trouble with multi step directions. It was said to be a difficulty with visionalizing. Multi-step directions also can be an auditory memory issue. I know Fast Forward, which my son did for auditory processing issues, works on auditory memory. Afterwards, my son could follow multi step directions, although I must tell you that he has taken to wanting lists now that he is older.

Visualizing is a more typical difficulty with ADHD. Visualizing and verbalizing, a Lindamood Program is one solution. Mindprime is more parent friendly program that teaches visualization.

My son just went through a battery of LMB testing because I was interested in one of their programs. His lowest score was in following multi step directions that involved visualization. (1%)

Beth

I’m suspecting that it is a short-term auditory memory. She is actually a visual learner. You know, I wouldn’t mind her using lists except I don’t think that it would be practical in school. If the teacher says, “get your lunches or lunch money and line up at the door and no talking,” I don’t think that writing it down first would be allowed or maybe not desirable.
Terry

Beth , was that the detroit oral direction test? My son scored pretty low on that. But we know from other measures that he has excellent auditory memory. And I assume that he can visualize the way you need to for comprehension. But he too is lousy with multi step instructions. I have always assumed its an attentional thing.

My daughter, age 21 and gifted, has never been able to follow multi-step directions. To be honest, I’m not so hot at it myself.

Coping skills: doing what the rest of the class is doing is a very good plan. Don’t stop it, encourage it (but warn her often to think and check before follwing the herd blindly!)

Lists are good. I still in really complex situations write lists on my left hand. OK, looks weird, but I never once forgot to pick up my daughter at school even when going to two universities and tutoring.

I write lists on paper and then don’t look at them but just writing the list helps remember.

Have her recite the direction back to you after you have given it. Later she can recite it under he breath to herself — I do this all the time.

Count out lists on the fingers one - go upstairs, two - brush teeth, three- turn out hall light, four - bed. Again just the effect of counting, labelling, and reciting helps the memory.

My daughter just tells people flat out ‘one thing at a time’. Most people will listen.

I review every night before I go to sleep what the plans are for the next day, and first thing in the morning I mentally review them again. It took me to my forties to feel secure about not forgetting to do things but I am much better now.

I strongly disrecommend memory trick methods, which just add an extra layer of things to remember and a bunch of distractors.

Karen, you could be right that it just is an “attentional” thing. Is the proper terminology “depth of processing”? I have to sort this all out I think but I’m thinking that some of the ideas given here might work weather it is a memory or attention issue. I guess I’m looking toward the first couple weeks of school when routines are not firmly established in my dd’s long-term memory. Usually she gets disciplined for not following directions in the beginning of each school year. It is always traumatic to be singled out by the new teacher. I think that I’ll give the teacher the heads up on this before school starts.

Victoria, I like the idea of using your hand as paper, it’s always “handy”. She could just abreviate key words. That’s a good skill to learn anyway. This would also make use of her visual memory which is nearly photographic. I’m going to try the wispering back of the tasks also. I have tried this before but I probably didn’t stick with it long enough.
I also think that it is great that your daughter is not afraid to stand up and state her needs without feeling “dumb”. Obviously her self-respect is pretty good.

Beth, what is “Fast Forward”.

Terry

Of course when we say “attentional” there is usually a whole bunch of things going on under the surface, and I’m always trying to figure out what those specific deficits are for my son. I’m sure he has the ability in terms of memory, but for some reason isn’t using it. I should pull out Mel Levine’s book “Educational Care”. He breaks down attention into all the little things that have to happen in order for it to work . If I find anything for you I’ll post back.

Subvocalizing lists, or information , is something my son does naturally b/c he is an auditory learner and not a visual learner. He has poor visual memory, so I think that’s why he loses school materials etc. He can’t remember where he’s left things…..He can look around a room and doesn’t seem to *see* things that are right there. Of course that could just be because he’s male!

Karen,

Yes, the test is Detroit test of Oral Directions. He was less than 1%! He did well on Gray REading test for comprehension (65%) but lousy on the Test of Problem Solving (4th percentile). We may do V and V next summer. He does fine on multiple choice type comprehension but less well with higher level abstract thinking. He can’t make inferences well. I am less worried about school here…you can be a B student without doing this than I am about real life. We did SS this summer and I see big improvements in accuracy, although I think he is actually reading slower. We go back for testing next month.

Terry,

Fast Forward is a program that works to improve auditory processing based on theory that the speed of speech is the problem. For my son, it made a big difference in his receptive language skills. He has tested slightly above average on every test since and was much below mean before hand (would have to look to tell you exactly how much). Practically speaking, he became engaged in the world around him…before he would only follow a conversation if it was clearly directed at him. Now he eavesdrops as well as the rest of my kids!!!

Generally I think visual and auditory strengths can be used to compenstate for the other. My husband has incredible auditory memory.l I am much weaker. I can never remember directions. Then I realized I could visualize where I was going and it was amazing what difference it made (side benefit of LD kid is you learn all these tricks!!).

If your daughter is strong visually than she could use those skills to compenstate for weak auditory memory. You could try having her create a picture in her mind for each thing you say…for example. My son had neither auditory or visual memory as a strength and we have worked very hard to try to move him into the average range for both. His auditory is probably never going to be better than low average so I am hoping the work we’ve done and will continue to do with the visual will help. Most people use their strengths to compenstate…it is when you don’t have any that you have a problem!!

Beth

Wanted to back up exactly what Beth said-help her use her strength!

Teach her to visualize herself going through all the motions(closing her eyes if necessary and yep, better give the teacher a heads up :wink: )

Writing directions down may cement them even if, like myself and I suspect Victoria, she loses the actual list

I too have improved my memory and organization using the tips Ive picked up researching LD-I still can’t bring myself to say “I’m an organized person” after so many years of being all over the place, but, truthfully, I seem to have transformed by using multiple tips and tricks.

I think I had always refused to use the tricks before-just wrote off the entire idea as if either I could somehow overcome this by simply trying harder or as if this was a character flaw I simply had to live with with

Involve your DH in this-hes not too old to improve and feel better about these things(I’m 49)

Lose my lists? Never! Every single one of them is in that five-foot-tall stack of milk crates full of papers right there in front of me.

PS: This seems to be the time to repeat this story.

When I applied for my MA in Education program, sometime in the Dark Ages, the references from professors were still kept as Top Secret, never declassified.
I went to my undergraduate advisor with whom I’d spent quite a bit of time on a department committee as well as taking his class so I knew him fairly well, tossed the reference form on his desk, and said “Here, Leon, write me some lies, will you?”
A few years later the Freedom of Information Act was passed (OK, so you know my age) and these records first saw the light of day. I was back in Canada teaching and never thought about it.
Then a few years later I went to my education school to finish the last summer of the degree program. I went to the desk to announce my name, and the secretary acted in a really strange way. Luckily my academic self-esteem is good or I would have been freaked out! She heard my name and said in a very meaningful sort of way “Oh, you’re HER.” I went “Whaa?” and she said “You know, you really want to see your file. I said “Er, why do I want to see my file?” She said “It’s confidential, but you REALLY want to see your file.” I replied “OK, I’ll bite, I really want to see my file.”
On top of the file was the reference from Leon. The first sentence of my official grad school reference from my advisor reads:
“Despite her apparent disorganization, Victoria has a keen analytical mind”

I wanted to get a copy and frame it, always regret that I didn’t. The perfect summary.

Recently in my tutoring a few people have complimented me on my organization. The papers are still battling to get away from me, but at least some people can see that I know exactly where I am and what I am doing in the academic sphere, let’s not talk about the mobile book and paper storage in the car.

In the same vein a new adult student, whom I have cycling through four different texts, recently asked me if I actually knew what I was going to do before I got there and did it. I told him yes to relieve his mind. :?

It may be unusual to organize in the mind and have a running fight with the papers (think Harry Potter and the book with teeth here) but it isn’t wrong, just different. Help the kid with the absolutely necessary papers — I am going through the stack of milk crates and trying to put the finances in some order and could use help — but otherwise, help him find his own way that works.

I also wanted to add that one of my colleagues with mild LD issues including memory has taught me a lot about compenstating. We both are professors at the same university which has branch campuses. One time I was at a different campus with the intent of doing several errands but I came all the way back to our home campus (hour drive) without depositing a progress report on a grant at the appropriate office. I was bemoaning my stupidity and my colleague asked me why I didn’t put it on my seat so that when I got back in my car (after doing my first errands) I would see it and remember to do it. It never occurred to me!!

I always have had a great memory but age and multiple demands have taken their toll. I think my friend who has always had to work harder than I now is ahead of me because she has set up her life to accomodate her weaknesses.

Beth

I *always* have papers on my seat!

Another good one which I advise often: put things to do on top of your shoes. Hard to get out of the house without them.

Beth and Marycas,
I have never tried visualization and I think it is a good lead.

Victoria,
What a great story and I like the shoe idea.

Terry

Today dd remembered 3 of 4 tasks with a visual image. It is a start!
Terry

3 of 4? That isn’t just a start, it’s more than my daughter (gifted) has ever done in 21 years of life, and it’s more than I ever managed until over age forty.

Terry, check out the Millermom site, under Education. There is a post for you regarding this subject.

Thanks so much ML. I haven’t been looking at the education section lately probably because I was disgusted with the creepy administrators at my 5 year olds IEP meeting (she has rheumatoid arthritis and OCD) and didn’t want to be reminded of it.
Terry