Do children regress when they are getting great help?

My son did four weeks, four hours a day of Seeing Stars (Lindamood Bell) this summer. He is older than your son, 11, but he would have shot me if I had tried to get him to read at night with him!!! I totally laid off the reading even on weekends while he was in the program.

I don’t know much about the medication aspect of it—my son is not on medication—but it is really hard for them to work all day.

And my son had a bad week—it was week 3. The first two weeks had gone very smoothly but then he hit what was really hanging him up. I was worried but he seemed to come through it.

Beth

I will ease up on the poor boy. I was not trying to make him read a lot, just a few sentences. I don’t want to discourage him at all.

I feel for him, summer time, everyone is out playing and he has to go and read for people.

Thanks for the reply

this clinic is doing providing reading therapy and DOESN”T want him on meds? Are they doing some kind of study for kids not on meds? For kids that are ADD and are already on meds they know when their brain is working and they are focused. Likewise, he must be in his words frustrated and struggling because it takes every ounce of energy he has to endure the 4 hours of daily intensive.

Considering he is requesting going back on meds I think it would be a good idea to do it. From my experience as a clinician working with kids who have ADD and speech and language issues, he will do so much better during therapy; he will have a shorter duration on the intensive in the long run. Otherwise he will have a longer intensive duration with the majority of time spent using behavior/motivational techniques to keep him going. This type of therapy is very exhausting and kids need a break at home so they can just be a kid.

When my daughter did a LMB type of intensive 4 hours a day we didn’t start with meds. It was so hard to keep her motivated and she was shutting down, once she was diagnosed and put on medication she started putting things together and we were able to put her into a small class 6 hours a day for $700 a month, instead of the intensive at $1400 a week.

There are a couple of different issues here. I’ll try to separate them.

Yes, it is perfectly *standard* for a remedial program to go very well for a period of time and then hit a snag. There is a “honeymoon” period where everything is new and exciting and you see a new way to do things and you think life will be happy ever after. Then you hit something that is difficult and in some cases students just fold up, decide that the new method isn’t working, and go back to old habits of failure. It is extremely important to ride out these rough patches! Do draw the line if the child is clearly overstressed and is showing excessive symptoms of nerves, but try to ride out the occasional bad day.

He is in a remedial reading program that is teaching him to *read* rather than memorize. He has to un-learn all the bad guessing habits that he has been using up to this point. During this stage, some students *apparently* read worse than before — before they were memorizing and reciting with fake fluency, and now they are actually stopping and looking at each word so they go slowly and hesitate. This is a GOOD sign, but if you have never taught like this you may not recognize it.
The apparently easy, repetitive books that you are using may actually be counter-productive; you want him *not* to guess that this word is the one you just told him in the previous sentence, but to look at each word and read it, to recognize the difference between Tim and Tom. Often I have students who get frustrated because the school teacher is telling them hurry up and guess and I am telling them slow down and look. You may be having a similar conflict of styles. I’d say to lay off the repetitive books and either get materials from the class or let the kid have a break.

Yes, he may be very tired after four hours. I know I am pretty tired after four hours of challenging classes! Again, just letting it alone for a while may be the best thing. Four hours a day is really enough. As this program progresses, he should start to be proud of what he can do and want to show it to you.

The medication issue — well, the school may have a feeling that the medication you have is for some reason or other not appropriate. If they can get him to focus reasonably well without it, then the medication may just have been tranquilizing him into compliance rather than really helping him. Or, the school may feel that the medication is quieting him too much and making him unreactive. Or, they may feel that the medication was acting on the wrong area, that he has something other than ADD but it was being masked by the meds. These are just a few possible thoughts. I would suggest very strongly that you take a little time to talk to the doctor and find out why she wants him off meds. Considering the worries about side effects and the expense and all the rest, if he can make progress without meds, this is good, isn’t it?

I have read that in countries where strong stimulant meds are not prescribed for children, some parents give their children sweetened coffee so the caffeine acts as a stimulant. Strong cola drinks would do the same. This seems to me to be a realtively mild and controllable way to see if you can help your child without going too far.

Hang in there, and let us know how it goes.

Victoria,

Yesterday I wen to his class earlier to speak to the team leader. We discussed the meds and how he does not want ot read to me anymore. She thinks that it is still important that he reads at home (which I would agree), yet he gets so emotional about it. She told me she watched Braydon for some of his classes, and she said that he was doing GREAT and he had such an awsome day!!. He is making such an improvment. (is that the $4,000.00 talking though?). Because this was the first time he was on his meds since he started, I asked if she or the instructors noticed a difference, and she said “honestly, no, we could not tell”. Anyway, she gave me some books to take home, she got Braydon to pick them out, and she said just go slowly with them, even if it is only a couple of pages. I asked her if I should try his meds again tomorrow, and she said to just leave it for now. If they find that his distraction is getting in the way of his learning, then we can try his meds. So, my son and I get into the car to drive home, and he is happy as usual. I asked him how his day was, and he was so excited and told me HE READ SO MANY BOOKS “MOM I READ 20 BOOKS TODAY! Maybe he was exagerating. I asked him if he felt better today than yesterday, and he told me that his medicine is helping him read more books. He was happy about this. He even said to me this morning as I was leaving for work “Mom, did you tell Jim (my husband) that I need to take my medicine before reading class”.
So, he wants to take it! Do you think he is using this as a crutch? When he began taking his ADD medicine, I explained it to him that some kids need eye glasses to focus on the words, you need medicine to help you stay focused on the words. 2 years ago if someone would have told me my son would be on a stimulant I would have gasped and freaked out…I WOULD NEVER DO THAT TO MY SON. But, there has been so many people in his educated life that have noticed such a big improvment with his focus, and then there have been some that have not seen a difference!

I was really hoping I would see a difference with him, and I see such a little difference! He is still reading the books that he would have in Grade one (he is going into grade 3). I was not looking for a huge leap, but I would like to see something, and he only has the rest of this week left and next week! Am I going to spend another $4,000.00? $10,000.00? What should I expect here? He will be going to his Grandmas after his reading classes are done for 2 weeks. Grandma lives on a lake, he will have his cousins to play with, it will be fun for him (finally a summer for the guy). Will he forget what he has learned? I have an opportunit to sit in some of the classes with him next week, to see what they are doing and how they are teaching him. How long or how many classess should I sit in with him so I know how I can teach him at home?

Victoria, you have responded to so many of my posts, and I totally appreciate it!

If someone had posted that a teacher was insisting that a child take medication, a thousand up-in-arms posts would have appeared lamenting how parents are being forced to cede decision-making on important matters over to the schools. Why then could it be even remotely appropriate for a teacher to make the opposite demand? It is entirely possible that the child is over-medicated, improperly-diagnosed, needs a different dose, needs a different medication, etc., but, if a teacher has that concern, the thing to do is to discuss it with the parent, not dictate that the child must not take the medication while at school. I would regard any program making such a demand as highly suspect, especially given that the child is not making observable progress and is expressing high levels of frustration.

Medications decisions are hard and schools should respect the parents’ decision either way. To the person who posted about her child I would say that you should stop asking for permission to medicate your child and simply give him the medicine if you think it will help. Don’t say anything one way or another to the school, because they do no have veto power here. If he starts to show progress while taking the medication, then you’ll know whether to continue with the program.

I see your point. But if they don’t see a difference, then why should I give it to him (unless they are lying to me). I, on the other hand have no idea if it is helping. My son has Mild Cognitive Disabilities, and I have no idea if he knows what is helping and what is not helping. I don’t see him during the days to know how he is doing. During the evenings if we are trying to read, he is squirming around, looking outside the window, and getting fustrated cause he can’t say the word ‘it” and keeps saying ‘is” instead.

Yet, when I do sit in with him for some classes next week, one day he will be on his med and the next day he won’t. I need to see for myself what his actions are during the days. Do you think that is a good idea?
:?

First of all…can you ‘Guests’ PUHLEEZ pick nicknames…It’s hard to follow who is who! Even if you want to be anonymous…just pick a name for this thread…pretty please!

I am pretty much of the school that says ‘meds only in EXTREME cases’, and generally would side with Victoria, but this one makes me wobble…IS he really finding internal benefit from the meds, though outsiders see little difference in behaviour…or is it ‘placebo’ effect???? I also agree with Patti - I have a couple of cubs ‘TRUE’ add/adhd and these boyos NEED their meds — they tend to know it also. However, this is not just a teacher saying ‘don’t med’ — is there not medical involvement, or is Dr. Truch a PHD non medical type? Maybe they want to challenge the meds, to ensure he is ‘true ADD’ and not having ‘ADD-like symptoms’ due to school problems…? This to me is GOOD…they’re not trying to tell you ‘meds are evil’ but honestly trying to find what is REALLY best for your kid…just what you hoped they’d be!

Maybe try giving him a ‘placebo’ — can you get something (maybe thru family doc, etc.) that looks the same as his pill (or would he take a ‘here, this is another version’) and see if he continues to feel he does better? Either way, it could tell you alot! Yr idea to observe him on and off meds sounds VERY good to me — often others could not read my son in 1st or 2nd grade, but I COULD tell what was going on, at least enough to know what to ask — you will maybe see more.

Do you use meds for school only, or for behaviour issues outside school (zoning out during play, inattentive behaviour, inability to behave while not on meds vs. demonstrated improvement while on, etc.) as well? This to me is a big marker for ‘true add’…if you don’t see the add at play and otherwise while not at school…IMO, it AIN’T ADD…(just my opinion, no arguments required from those who disagree…)

Also, stick to reading only what they send or approve…should follow the phonics he has had at school. GUESSING…now, THAT is an EVIL thing!

Best to you, Brayden’s Mom!!!! GLAD it is going well…smooth isn’t something we get with our kids, but they ARE worth it…!

Still a bunch of issues here. One by one again:

Yes, it is very likely he is using the medication as a crutch. For several years he’s been having a hard time, and then his loved and trusted mother tells him “this pill will make things work better”. Of course he hangs on to it for dear life. Does it really help or not? Imposible for me to say not being there, and very hard for a mother to say because it is also hard for the mother to be objective. If he has been going without meds for some time and he went back on yesterday and the school couldn’t tell the difference, these being qualified and experienced people, then it is very possible that the benefits were pure placebo effect.

The idea of a blind trial, one day the real med and another day a similar-looking sugar pill, is an excellent one. Even better a double/triple-blind trial where dad gives him the pill (and makes a private note, *written* down, which one on which day) and neither kid nor school nor mom knows which one it is; then mom and school note behaviour for the day (written again) and at the end of the week notes are compared to see if any differences were really observed. Results of this kind of trial are often surprising.

Yes, very likely the school is trying to see if it is true ADD or something else that the medication has been covering up or distracting you from seeing. After all, if it is inappropriate or ineffective, you really don;t want to be using it unnecessarily, do you? This place has a good reputation and rather than just going against them, I would really suggest sitting down and discussing the ins and outs.

Time: it takes for the average non-reading kid somewhere around a hundred to two hundred hours to get reasonably fluent. This is a very rough estimate based on my own experience, but it does seem to generalize pretty well. About a third of that time needs to be spent on direct phonics instruction and applications, a third on guided oral reading, and a third on the reading-writing connection. As in all learning, spaced practice works best, that is to say a couple of short practices every day rather than one extended practice once a week.
The intensive program you are doing is giving him the phonics in a lump over a few weeks. It may take some time for him to digest all of it. He needs the spaced practice of the guided oral reading to be continued for some time, probably the next year or two, and he will need to work on reading-writing-spelling for some time, maybe years.
The idea of this program is *not* to wave a magic wand and create instant reading, as I said before that is a dead-end, but rather to lay a firm foundation on which reading skills will build and continue to build for life. The question to ask is *not* whether he can pick up a Grade 3 book and read it right away, but whether he approaches a new reading task with tools to unlock it independently. At first he may take some time to apply those tools, but once he has them he will continue to use them. What you are looking for is a slow but steady *increase* in reading skill from day to day and from week to week. Get to Grade 3 and stop — remain at Grade 3 for the rest of your life. Get to Grade 3 and improve a little every day — keep going to high school or even college by adulthood.

You mentioned the cognitive impairment before. Well, this means he starts from a place further back than everyone else and he runs more slowly. He *can* get to the end of the track, but he will have to take longer to do it. How much longer is a question that a stranger can’t answer.
The Reading Foundatin and the PG program have good reputations and I would expect that most kids get enough from one session; that seems to be the way it is planned. However your child may be one of the minority that need a second run-through. That is the nature of a cognitive impairment. Talk to the people at the foundation and find out what they think about repeating the program and/or doing other programs. They should talk to you honestly about your child’s needs, not give you a high-pressure sales job.

Vacation: of course go to the cottage and be a kid!! As far as forgetting, if he has really *learned* this time, instead of guess and fake, he shouldn’t forget very much. Might need a quick reminder afterwards but he should be internalizing the skills. On the other hand, with cognitive impairment and previous bad experience, it might be a good idea to keep up a minimal amount of practice, say 20 to 30 minutes a day. He can do this after supper or whatever and not lose out on his time in the sun. You can get readers and/or workbooks from the school or from PG — workbooks are very helpful for this sort of maintenance because he can do a page a day, not too much or too tiring, and a good sense of accomplishment to look over it and see the finished work. If he does a workbook, it should be *with* supervision and help, silent seat work being worse than useless.

in Victoria’s post…but maybe get recommended texts from the school that match his level of instruction…also, my son LOVED the old ‘Ez Readers’ at this stage: Frog and Toad Are Friends, Small Pig…I LOVE ARNOLD LOBEL!!! anything he wrote is good for beginners, IMO!

Reward him for the read-aloud…and praise praise praise, and remind him with all the belief that is in you: Brayden, if you practice — you WILL read, as well as anyone…and HE WILL! Practice may not make ‘perfect’ — but it comes closer than anything else I’ve found.

I am sorry for not logging in. I assume that when I can post a question my name automatically logs in.

Elizabeth, you said something that I have wondered for a year now since I have found that he has cognitive disabilities, and that is
“is he a ‘true ADD’ and not having ‘ADD-like symptoms’ due to school problems”
Yeah, he has some of the classic criteria’s of an ADD boy. Easily distracted is just the big one. He is not hyper at all, and he has no behavior problems AT ALL. He is sweet! I think I have given him 3 time outs in his life. He is good, no, he his not good – he is Great! When the Psychologist tested him, the first thought that came to my head was “oh, my god, maybe he does not have ADD, maybe he is not focused because he is severely delayed in everything and he JUST CAN’T GRASP all the concepts with reading / writing/ math. It always makes me wonder if he does have ADD…but I put my faith in the doctors and the school…if they say he has it, am I not to believe it?

But, Dr. Trush told me in the initial consultation that we know our son best. If we think he needs to meds, then by all means go ahead with them. I just don’t know about medication….I have had so many people tell me there is a huge difference, and others tell me they can’t tell. So, I thought I would do the first week without the meds. Then my first visit with the team leader, I asked her how his focus was, and she said it was just fine. Sure there were a “few” little reminders, but he always got back on track.
I do not use the meds unless someone tells me he is having a difficult time concentrating. Like during the school year, his grade 2 teacher didn’t notice a difference, but his instructor for Sylvan Learning Centre could notice a huge difference. I am a basketball, going up and down with this thing!

Victoria, I like your “double/triple-blind trial” ….. I wonder if this is something I can also use at the beginning of the school year. He will have 3 new teachers (2 connection teachers and an Aid). I am curious to know if they will be able to tell. I hope this is not too sneaky of me!
I can’t tell you how many work books I have bought. Very very simple to a year behind to his age group…..he wants them when he see’s them, but sits for maybe 5 min with me and is “bored”. I do sit there all the time with him, whether it is reading, work book, math, coloring, painting…..I am always there to supervise and give encouragement.

[quote=”tereseml”]I am sorry for not logging in. I assume that when I can post a question my name automatically logs in.

It always makes me wonder if he does have ADD…but I put my faith in the doctors and the school…if they say he has it, am I not to believe it?

t.[/quote]

Tereseml,

I think you already know that it is your job as a parent to question a diagnosis if it seems inconsistent with what you know about your child. Why else would you be here asking questions? Screw up your courage and ask your questions in the right places, though. The information you can get here, while certainly helpful, is necessarily limited. No one on this board knows you or your child and you haven’t posted any test scores that would give information about the nature of your child’s difficulties. If you are wondering if your boy is inattentive and “bored” because the work is too hard for him due to his cognitive impairment, well, go out and ask the doctor who diagnosed him that question. If you don’t like the answer, find another professional and ask that person. If you don’t get the answers you need, start reading research articles and get yourself educated. In fact, you should do that regardless of how much faith you have in the school or the doctors. Believe me, even if they are well-meaning they may also be wrong. If you don’t want to medicate your child or if you don’t think it is helping him, well don’t give him the meds and tell the doctor why. You can’t throw up your hands and say you don’t know so you’ll just do what you are told.

My 12 yr old is dx’d ADD inattentive only

Many people, including well educated teachers, are unaware this subcategory exists. They think every child on medication must talk non-stop, be unable to sit still, and create a noticeable behavior problem in the classroom

So when they encounter a kid who is “great’ like your son and mine, they question the need for medication AND the diagnosis because those boys just dont fit their preconceived notions of a ADHD child

If your son feels the meds are working, let him have them. The whole purpose of this $4000 venture is to inspire confidence in his reading, isnt it??? Why take away one of the biggest supports he now has to reach that goal??

A crutch? Who cares? Get him through the reading program-inspire him with the confidence that is so within his grasp. Reember the smile and enthusiasm he came home with the day he was on the medication.

Deal with the medication question and concerns about the diagnosis later.

Perhaps the exhaustion is from keeping it together for school without the benefit of the medication. The teachers dont see that-they see his best few hours and not how much that effort may be taking out of him

The novelty of a new program, school, or teacher will often inspire improvement in an ADHD child. The effect wears off when the novelty wears off. Your experience actually suppports the diagnosis

JMHO

What Victoria said reminded me of my daughter. We’ve been going to a tutor for 3 years and my child has improved but lately she has been rebelling. She complains that she used to be able to read until I took her to the tutor and then she couldn’t read anymore. We were going to do Rewards this summer but my child has been so out of it that we haven’t started. I work with her with the Check and Double Check series and also have been doing the Lexia Reading SOS and I have been impressed by both. Each day is different some days I can get her to do some things other days not. She is diagnosed as having Apraxia by the school. She gets distracted alot and I get upset, so I am trying to keep her going to tutors because they handle it better than I do.
Although that is changing which has me worried . It may be a combination of my child not wanting homework because other kids don’t have any, lack of sleep, and difficult relationships. Hang in there and be sure to talk with your doctor before adjusting the medication.

Guest,

My son’s test scores were something I never got. What I did get is a Summary of the Results in a written report. These were the instruments used and here is a overview of the written report. I have left out a lot because it is actually 8 pages long, but gives you an idea of how severly delayed he is:

ASSESSMENT INSTRUMENTS:
Wechsler Intelligence Scale for Children — Third Edition (WISC-ffl)
Woodcock Johnson ifi Tests of Achievement (WJffl)
Jeny Johns Basic Reading Inventory, 7th Edition
Informal Drawing
Writing Sample
Adaptive Behavior Assessment System (ABAS), Teacher Rating
Teacher and Child Interviews
Review of School Records
Previous Assessment Results

What is Braydon’s overall level of intellectual functioning? Are any areas of intellectual strength or weakness indicated?

Braydon’s total score of 64 (95% confidence interval 60-72) on the WISC-III was Significantly Below Average for his age at the 1 % percentile, indicating delayed intellectual abilities

On the Verbal Scale, assessing verbal reasoning and acquired knowledge, Braydon’s score of 66 (95% confidence interval 6 1—76) was Significantly Below Average at the 1% percentile. On the Performance Scale, assessing non-verbal reasoning and visual-motor skills, Braydon’s score of 64 (95% confidence interval 59—77) was Significantly Below Average at the 1% percentile. Similarly weak skills were indicated in both the verbal and non-verbal reasoning areas. .

In the Verbal Comprehension Area, Braydon’s score was Borderline at the 2% percentile. The types of skills assessed in this area reflect a student’s ability to understand, retain, evaluate, and apply concepts presented in school. Receptive and expressive language skills are also involved in these tasks. All of Braydon’s subtest scores were significantly below average for his age. Significant weaknesses were indicated in acquired knowledge, social reasoning, understanding of social ‘ practices, abstract verbal reasoning recognizing relationships between concepts, vocabulary, concept formation and expression, long-term memory, and higher order reasoning. Observations suggested significant weaknesses in expressive language and articulation. Braydon took time to reflect on questions and formulate answers, but often had difficulty answering questions accurately.

Braydon’s total reading score on the WJ-III was significantly below average for his grade (2nd percentile). This score provides an overall measure of reading performance when decoding, comprehension, and speed are considered together. While significant delays were indicated, these were consistent with the general intellectual delays assessed. Braydon’s performance on reading activities was comparable to that of a student finishing ECS.

Written Language:
Braydon was able to print letters-when asked and was able to print some short words correctly. His spelling score was low average for his grade (20th Percentile) Braydon had difficulty understanding directions on the writing activities and required much explanation and support.

Braydon’s total math score on the WJ-II was significantly below average for his grade at the 1st percentile. This score provides an overall measure of math achievement when calculation skills, problem solving, and speed are considered together. While weaknesses were indicated, these were

Auditory Comprehension

Braydon displayed significant weaknesses in comprehension of oral language (1st percentile), consistent with assessment observations suggesting great difficulty understanding directions on many activities despite re-explanation. This score suggested listening comprehension skills similar to a pre-ECS student. His ability to understand, retain, and follow auditory directions was significantly below average (3rd percentile). He was able to follow very simple directions involving minimal words, but had great difficulty as directions became longer.. He understood individual words, but rarely had appropriate understanding of entire phrases. Braydon’s ability to understand and retain oral stories was significantly below average (l~ percentile). He tended to retain some individual words presented, but typically appeared to have little overall meaning.

Braydon’s total General Adaptive Composite score on the ABAS fell in the Below Average range for his age at the 12th percentile. This score suggest that functional and adaptive behaviors are areas of personal strength for Braydon, but nonetheless below average compared to others his age. Social functioning was an area of strength (3 0th percentile), while practical life skills (13th percentile) and conceptual skills (10th percentile) were areas of weakness and below average.

YIKES, MAKES ME CRY EVERY TIME I READ THIS.

This “is it a crutch” concern is bull, in a word. If, like me, you are nearsighted and have astigmatism, but can still read without glasses, albeit with lots of eystrain, are my glasses a crutch or simply a tool to help me read better and with less effort? If a person is depressed and takes an antidepressant, is that person using a crutch, given that most episodes of depression will eventually abate on their own (again, albeit after much suffering) or given that some people are able recover using only some kind of interpersonal or cognitive behavioral therapy? Moreover, even if the medication is a crutch, so what, as Patti says. When your ankle is weak and won’t support you, but you still need to walk, you use a crutch. The alternative is to stay home and miss out. If you think the diagnosis of ADHD is valid, you don’t have some moral opposition to medication, and the meds helps the child and do not cause intolerable side effects, then what is wrong with using them? After all, ADHD is not a moral failing or some condition completely controllable by the exercise will and the expenditure of hard work. It is an actual neurological condition, the precise cause of which is still being teased out. For sure, it is not something that necessarily can be overcome simply by effort and desire to do so, any more than a sprained ankle is. Over time, after strenthening exercise and healing occurs, the ankle will hold the person without the crutch. So too, over time, the child with ADHD may develop ways to compensate without medication. Then he won’t need what you think of as a crutch either. On the other hand, a serious enough injury to a leg may necessitate the use of a crutch forever. A serious enough case of ADHD may make medication a necessary tool forever. Again, so what.

Braydon’s Mom, here is a little story for you. I had a student who, in first grade was tested for LD and ADHD because he lagged so far behind other students. At that time, his full scale IQ was measured in the high 80s, with no significant differences between verbal and performance. After medication treatment for ADHD and treatment for auditory processing disorder, he was tested again in 4th grade. At that time, his full-scale IQ was 116.

Guest
You are making me sound like I am against the Medication, and I am not. I want to make sure that he is gaining something from using the medication. If so many people tell me they can’t notice a difference, would that not make you wonder also? I am all for it if it is helping stay focused!

If you have a student in your class that did not focus well, and you find out that that student is doing a trial of, say Ritalin, and you notice no difference in him, would you not wonder why? Why put him on it if there is no difference.

I have not been able to sit with him during class time, but next week, I will observe for myself to see if there is a difference.

Just weighing in…

We put our LD/ inattentive child in a special LD school, so in essence he is getting the same type of intensive remediation as your son.

Because of the small class size and the strucutre we have avoided medications for now. I can see that the school you are at may feel that they can help you avoid meds , but ultimately it is up to you to decide if they are appropriate for your child. Its just not their call to make.

My son also thought his teacher was mad at him even though it was only that he was getting frequent reminders /cues to attend in class. Once he understood that , he did not feel singled out. I think its great that the director o fyour program understood the problem and acted on it.

During the school year they did not recommend reading at home in addition to their program, until more than half way thru the year. They believed (and I was happy to go with it) that he needed some down time in the evening. He did have homework, but it was brief, and consisted of reading word lists. Not as emotionally loaded as reading a book. Once he had reached a level of proficiency his teacher felt comfortable with they did recommend evening reading - but not to me. For his own pleasure - what a concept!

It sounds like you are on the right track and are really helping your son!

Karen, I am still searching for a good LD school. The ones that are very well known here are at least over $10,000.00 a year, and some have said to me “sorry we don’t take cognitive Children”, onl LD children.
So, other schools gere are schools with kids who are severly handicap. eg: Cyerebal Palsy, Asperger, autistic, severe behavior problems. My son has NO BEHAVIOR problems at all. He is so kind and sensitive. I am not sure if that setting would be good for him.
So, I am kinda stuck on private school. There is one, but it is an hour away, and they do bus but that is over an hour on a bus each way.

It is too bad there are not more here in the city that I can choose from.

oops, forgot to long in….that was my post above!
Sorry

[quote=”tereseml”]Guest
You are making me sound like I am against the Medication, and I am not. I want to make sure that he is gaining something from using the medication. If so many people tell me they can’t notice a difference, would that not make you wonder also? I am all for it if it is helping stay focused!

[/quote]

No, I am saying that you need to take responsibility for this decision rather than first giving medication because the doctor wants you to do it and then stopping it because the teacher wants you to do that. How does your son seem at home when he takes medication vs. when he doesn’t. Make your own judgments on it. Give it to him sometime when he is not in school then look for differences in him. Ask him how he feels when he takes it. It is good you will be watching him in school soon. Thats a step in the right direction.

“How does your son seem at home when he takes medication vs. when he doesn’t:

My son is irritable when he is on the medication, he is sensative as it is, but even more so when he is on it. He has told me he is dizzy, mostly when he is on the school bus. (I think it could be motion sickness).
He loves to clean (believe it or not). When he is on his meds (especially when he would come home from school), he was obsessed with cleaning his room. He would vacumn it over and over again, move his dresser, clean under his bed. It was almost scary how engrosed he would be doing this. When he is not on his medication, he is just himself. He has no siblings his age (I have two teenage stepkids), so I am his form of entertainment. :)

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Good luck finding the right school. it can make such a difference. There are children that travel hours to get to my son’s school. We actually relocated to be closer to it , so he wouldn’t have to commute. Its not easy is it?

Looking at those test scores, it is notable that his printing and his social abilities are higher. So there are places to work from.

He may be one of the very small group of kids who learn best by programs that have the child write and read back his stories. (This approach is popular in some very ineffective programs and in general I avoid it strenuously, but for this kid it may be a good technique).

He needs to be with other kids to keep up the social end. Homeschooling might be an option but in this case he would definitely need organized group activities several times a week.

With all the language problems, I would think of everything from speech therapy to programs like the Listening Program and Fast Forword. These might help him bring up the base language skills and after that then reading makes a heck of a lot more sense.

A kid scoring in the first percentile is just lost when kept with age-mates. No wonder he doesn’t listen! I bet you wouldn’t listen in my class about logarithmic equations, either.
I remember you talking about social skills and the Barney thing earlier (this was you, wasn’t it?) and between scores and your observations, I’d say he acts in general like a much younger kid. So keeping him in Grade 3 just because of his birthday, an abstract number, doesn’t make a lot of sense. He just isn’t prepared for Grade 3. I would say Grade 2 (or if you could do it, probably not practical) even repeating Grade 1 would give him a chance to do work that fits who and where he is. The only problem with this is if he is very large physically and would stand out and be teased, but otherwise he’s probably do a lot better if matched to his actual development instead of his birthday.

Medications are *not* an issue for religious dogma. It is not a question of believing in them with all your faith or disbelieving equally strongly. It is a question of facts and observations and reasonable, thoughtful experiment. From what you say about his being nervous on the medications you have and about compulsive cleaning when taking them, the particular prescription appears to be doing more harm than good. Maybe he will do best with none, and maybe he will do best with another type of medication, and maybe he will do best with a different dosage. But something that causes nervousness and compulsive behaviour and (as far as I can figure from your report) does *not* show any great increase in language use or school functioning — well, it doesn’t seem to be helping, does it?
You really need to collect *all* these facts and observations and have a good talk with a doctor who will take some time and try to get the best for your child. A specialist rather than a family doctor would seem to be called for by this point.

Terese,

I really don’t need to reply since Victoria has beautifully expressed almost all my thoughts already!

Victoria was right that having him read those little predictable books is counter-productive to what he is now being taught. You’d only want to be using decodable text (based on the sounds he has learned) at this point.

Yes, it will be a long, slow process. It can be very slow for a dyslexic child, but it may take even longer for a child with low cognitive scores. However, as someone said, you CAN work on those skills and improve them. Besides the programs already mentioned, PACE or Audibox could be considered. The reading intensive is just the beginning. Plan to work daily for years to keep and extend these skills.

With all these issues, I agree that it is unlikely that he will manage in a regular classroom. I’d choose a self-contained special class at least for academics or homeschool.

Regarding the medication, goodness, how fantastic that this clinic is open to trying therapy without meds! So many kids are wrongly put on meds because they are bored in a classroom that is not meeting thier needs, and I salute the Reading Foundation for being willing to see if a child can work without it. I support meds for the children who can’t function without it (like Elizabeth’s and Patti’s), but I also strongly disagree with the “guest” who says to give it just because the child asks for it! Unreal! (Are you aware that Ritalin is a stimulant and will give anyone a feeling of “focus”???? I might benefit from it myself, but I choose to drink coffee instead of taking a prescription drug. Medication should not be taken lightly! If you use “guest’s” logic, you may as well put Ritalin in the water fountain at school.)

ALSO, one big, big warning, this child is showing signs of OCD on this medication!!! That is a sure sign to go back to the doctor or either stop the meds.

Really, I suspect this little boy is just not in the right educational setting. He may or may not have ADD, but it surely sounds questionable. But the people in the best situation to give an opinion on his focus during instruction are those now working with him 4 hours a day…in combination with the parents observations at home.

Janis

Victoria and Janis….
I love your input and reading your replies. First off, I have to tell you that my son has always been in a Connections Class since grade one. He will still be in a connections class for grade 3. After grade 3 they, all the kids will move to Middle School, and that is when I will find a private LD school for him. Now, here in Calgary Alberta a Connections class is a Special Ed class. There is no more than 11 kids, with 2 teachers, a teachers aid, OT, and SLP. Mind you the school board only gives us an OT and SLP once a week, to try to work with probably half the kids. But I have been on the Alberta Association of Speech Therapists to find a Private tutor. But, that is hard, how do I know who is good at what they do? Anyway, back to the Connections class…..I had great success with his grade 1 teacher, she ROCKED. She was using a lot of stuff that I see the Reading Foundatin use. Grade 2 he had a “Throw back from the 60’s” teacher, who was an idiot! This year (Grade 3) he will have 2 new teachers that have experience with Special needs kids. So, I will cross my fingers that they are good, but this time also, I am going to be much more involved in his learning. The principle has already asked if we could have a meeting at the beginning of the year to talk about the rededial program my son tried during the summer.
I would love to find a private tutor to come to the house who knows about PG or LiPS, phono-graphix. Just to have someone who can work with him a few nights a week, because when I work with him, it is a “gong” show to say the least. What is Listening Program and Fast Forword? Is this something a speech therapist does?
Victoria, it was me talking about “barney” …
I also have to say, that I would never, could never retain him. That would never be an option for me. I “failed” grade 3 myself. Now I have never had any disabilities, its just that my grade 3 teacher lost her daughter and I looked like her, so she became obsessed with me. But ….ALL of my life I thought I was stupid. My parents never told me what happened until I was in late high school But all of my life, I had felt stupid. kids made fun of me becauase I was older. I never would tell anyone my real age, in fear they would do the math. He is in a good place right now. All the kids are on IPP (individulized Program Plans), and they go at a slower pace. Mind you I think my son is one of the “slower”ones. Most of the kids in this class have some sort of LD.
With regards to the med’s, I was happy to hear that he is “doing fine’ without them. This is what I want to hear. I would not hesitate to put him on the meds if I knew forsure that this is something he needs. Yes, I can see him not focusing, but it does not take him a lot of reminding to stay focused. EG: During is swim lessons, he has kind dozed off into space, and has forgotten the teacher is teaching the kids about the back stroke, I have to look at Braydon and give him a look as to say “Listen to your teacher”, and he is fine after that.
It is not like he bounces off the walls, and uncontrollable. Anyway, medicating kids is such a controversy. I hate arguing with people about it.
He does act younger, but not a lot younger. His friends don’t seem to notice anything different. Even the parents of his friends are shocked when I tell them he has “cognitive Disabilities”. There are times it shows. Being sensitive mostly. A couple of doors down there are two younger girls, and my son does not care who they are, he just wants to play with someone, but the girls at times can be mean, so my son will come in crying and upset that the girls won’t play with him. Yeah, he is slower in sports, mostly because of the rules, concepts. But, really, he looks and for the most part acts like a normal 8 yr old boy.
PLUS, HE IS SO CUTE!

OK, the special needs class is the right placement.
He needs structured and organized programs, at the level where he is now whatever that is, probably Grade 1 in reading.
Definitely fight to have PG or Orton-Gillingham or other *systematic* programs used. Do NOT fall for sales jobs for “whole-language” or “natural” methods or “we know best, we have a wonderful program but you (dumb parent) don’t know about teaching”.

Get to a specialist about meds. You may have to wait six months, but put your name in now and you’ll get there. Make sure at your first meeting that this is someone with an open mind who will not automatically say either yes or no, but who will use judgement on the individual person. Everything you say makes it sound, from a distance, like meds are not appropriate for your child, but this is something to test with a person who knows his medicine.

As far as getting along socially, I don’t want to sound negative, but be prepared for big problems to come up this year and next. He is at an age where kids start to be more aware of social expectations and start forming cliques. Kids who have previously been his friends may shut him out or may make fun of him. Cute is nice, but it will only carry him so far. Work on keeping him in sports and activities and help him meet friends whose parents you can talk to and try to find ways around problems when they come up.

The programs such as The Listening Program and FastForword and PACE are all things that are often discussed on this board, although I have not used them myself. Post a new thread on this page and on teaching LD asking for info from people who know.

Yes, you wouldn’t need to have him retained anyway since he is in a special class. That’s good. You are wise to try and supplement with tutoring, though. PACE is too expensive, but there is a home version called BrainSkills. Check that out. It is supposed to be a pretty good cognitive skills training program. You could do it yourself or give it to a tutor to use with him some of the time. I think they require around 6 hours per week of instruction. Audiblox is similar. I have not used these either but have heard reliable tutors on these boards say they are beneficial.

Janis

That will be a sad day when someone shuts him out. He LOVES his friends, and that social connections I think is what makes him the happy boy he is. He does not watch TV (a lot) or play computer/video games, so his friends are his entertainment.

Brainskill, I think I have read some posts on that, but I will do some more searching.
It is hard not knowing where to turn. But the more I learn, the more I will know.
What did people do without the computer back in the “old” days? I am printing all the replies I have had on all my messages. This is always good to go back and read what people have mentioned to you.
As for fighting for a PG or Orton-Gillinham, I am not sure if that is possible in the public schools? Is it? As for the meds, I would love to have him not use them. So I will go and make an appointment with someone else besides our family doctor.
Thanks again you both seem so educated, and have really been a saving grace for me ….
:D