FFW or Earobics ---& doing it yourself!

For what its worth, our speech therapist used to recommend that clients get Earobics at home . We didn’t (diferent issues I think ) but a friend did and found it funand easy to use. Can’t comment on FFW.

I have a lot of experience with FFW. I used Earobics briefly at school. A speech therapist friend said Earobics does a lot of work with vowels (which is a good thing). The schedule is, I think, less demanding. FFW is a very demanding schedule - five 20 minute games a day (can be broken up during your day). The computer sets which five of the seven he plays and it sets the level/speed of each game. Twenty days is the minimum about of training and you are looking for scores above 80% in five of the seven games before you stop which often takes more than 20 days. The newness wears off fairly quickly and some games can become very tedious for a child who struggles with the skill. Hard games will often need close monitoring to see that the child is really working at it. At the same time while you need to make sure he understands the concept and there are times when some coaching is appropriate, you also have to resist repeating information he needs to be listening for or in other words helping too much. So, you may want to do Earobics first. You might set a schedule that is close to the FFW time amounts. Then if you do FFW make sure it is at a time when you can all manage to do the correct amounts. I have noticed that FFW has a shorter programversion, but I have not tried it since our lab is set with the earlier program.

We have done both. FFW artificially slows down the speed of language with a computer. Earobics does not. FFW is very demanding. Earobics can be done with any intensity you desire. The big thing for us is that my son really could not do a lot of the Earobics exercises until he did FFW. So I would say that FFW starts at a more elementary level than Earobics.

One bit of advice I have heard is do Earobics if your child can and do FFW if they can not since Earobics is much cheaper.

Beth

The provider just left me the FFW discs so I can find out where my son might be (or even if FFW would be appropriate!). I also have to make sure it will work with my system before we commit to the program. I’ve got 3 discs (Reading, Languge to Reading, and Language). What order do you start with?

(Beth I’ve been having problems with my email)

You might want to ask about the 48-minute protocol for FFW for Middle Schoolers (sorry, don’t have the exact name handy — have been confused ever since they changed the names of all their programs). This consists of 6 exercises of 8 minutes each per day, rather than 5 exercises of 20 minutes each per day. It takes longer to go through the program but is less strenuous, and studies indicate it is just as effective. The company endorses this protocol only for the Middle School CD, as that is the only one they have the research on so far. Your provider should be able to tell you if it would be appropriate for a 10yo. It’s a pre-set protocol, so must be indicated as the preference before the program is started (otherwise the default is the old protocol).

Nancy

On FFW Language, you can choose between 50, 75, and 100 minutes per day.

You do FFW Language first, then FFW Language to Reading. If within the first 10 days the child is performing at a certain level, the provider can move the child up to FFW L to R at no extra cost. For that reason, it makes sense to start with FFW Language.

Regarding effectiveness, it just all depends on the child and who you talk to! Here is a small study comparing LiPS, Earobics, and FFW:

http://www.interdys.org/pdf/PS29-Steppingstones.pdf

Janis

Nancy2,
My provider has the middle schooler’s program, but she thought it might be too difficult and didn’t leave it with me. I’m not sure the protocol we’ll follow yet. Although I wouldn’t mind doing as much as possible to work through the program quickly (if we decide to do it).

Janis,
Thanks for the information! My provider wasn’t sure which one to start with. I was thinking of the language disc. Particularly since I’m more concerned with auditory processing at this time than reading (not that reading isn’t a huge problem, but I think there are other programs that would probably be more effective for this). I think my son may be processing auditory information too slowly and not getting all the sounds in general conversation.

(BTW, A local friend of mine told me that her son volunteered to participate in a FFW trial through the school district. They had a group of kids do the program for something like 5 hours a day for two weeks. She said the district decided not to contract for FFW because there were no improvements in general academic scores (reading or learning). but, my friend did say that FFW made huge impact on her son’s auditory processing and overall language. She told me it was about a 3 year jump. Yet, He still has reading and other processing difficulties. It was only one piece of the puzzle).

Laura,

I want to say “duh” to that school district! All FFW does is PREPARE the child to be taught to read, not actually teach reading. They missed the point entirely.

FFW Language is the powerful program. I wouldn’t think twice about starting there. As I said, you start there, and if it’s a breeze, then you move up to FFW L to R. That’s all I’d do. I wouldn’t do FFW to R. I think reading instruction is best delivered by a human. ;-)
Unless you just have money to burn and can do both.

I am a little puzzled why your provider would be uncertain about where he should start.

Janis

Janis,
I agree! But it’s sad they didn’t see the importance of helping provide the underlying skills some kids will need in order to read or learn well.

Is FFW actually similar to LIPS? I know my son doesn’t need LIPS. My ONLY reason for having my son do FFW is I’d like him to “hear” what the teacher is saying in class. He sometimes gets the information “garbled,” or doesn’t get all the details. We’ve determined that it’s unlikely to be attentional so the only thing left is auditory processing. Also, I’ve noticed him unaccurately repeating larger multi-syllable words after I’ve said something using one). His decoding is quite good. I think his reading fluency problems may indeed be more visual.

One interesting bit of research I read lately said that kids with temporal lobe processing problems usually have a problem either auditory or visual modalities but usually not both (now why would that be?). I can’t help but think my son has both. Here’s another little side note! There’s research indicating that testing the temporal lobe processing in prereaders may help predict those who will have reading disabilities. Kind of interesting!

My provider is actually a friend who has only used the program with her own son (in Jr. High). She also prefers PACE to FFW and uses that program instead.

FFW is not like LIPS. LIPS teaches kids to feel the sounds in their mouth. It is a way of compenstating for the fact that they have difficulty hearing differences between sounds. It is trying to get kids to connect sounds, feelings in mouth, and letters on the page. FFW is completely auditory—the basic theory is that some kids can’t process sounds as quickly as people speak and so it artificially slows down language and then speeds it up as kids become competent.

My son has had problems with both visual and auditory processing so yours certainy is not alone.

We did FFW and PACE. PACE is broader but it is more of a cognitive based program while FFW works directly on auditory processing. We saw far more differences with FFW than PACE but I am sure that is because my son’s issues are very sensory based.

But PACE would probably be effective for more kids than FFW. Just not mine!!

Beth

Beth when you said your son was more “sensory” based what so you mean by that?
thanks

FFW Language and Middle and High School are actually the same program (FFW 1- all auditory skills) in different format. Language has animated graphics, very clever, fun to watch. Middle and High School has a sports theme. My students try the demos and pick which one they prefer. It’s about 50/50 which one they choose. Otherwise they go through pretty much the same.

Beth,
FFW sounds like it may just be an appropriate program. I do believe my son may have slower auditory processing. Does anyone know if Earobics works on helping “normalize” this problem, or would it be more auditory phonemic awareness?

Angela,
Thanks for explaining the difference between the programs. My 10-year-old is on the immature side and isn’t too interested in sports so he may be better with the language program. So far we’re having a “wee bit of trouble” with computer compatibility (I have a new Mac). But my husband told me he’ll try to load it on his PC tomorrow.

Thanks for all the help in describing these programs!

Oooops! That last post is mine - Laura in CA.

Laura,

Have you considered having auditory processing testing done by an audiologist who specializes in APD? It might be better to have more information before just spending that money on FFW.

Sorry, I don’t remember…are you homeschooling or is your son in school? I personally will wait and do FFW only in the summer with my own child. They are tired after a day at school and with homework, well, it’s just not optimal in the least. However, if you are homeschooling, you have the freedom to make your own schedule.

Janis

I have seen Earobics and it does not work specifically on normalizing speed of auditory processing. It works on phonological skills.

FFW, on the other hand, is supposed to work on the auditory processing speed issue. I believe some of the early research on it was done using functional MRIs, which are able to measure auditory processing speed.

Nancy

Thanks so much for explaining the differences between these programs. All of this information has helped confirm my belief that FFW may be a good choise for my son.

At this point I’ve spent a fortune on testing and need to take a break from that. I’m hoping that by trying FFW before committing to the program we’ll get an idea if it might be helpful. (If it’s a challenge). So far my husband still hasn’t downloaded it, but I’m hoping he’ll get to it tomorrow night.

I would really like to do FFW as soon as possible, but maybe we’d be better off waiting until winter break? Have you ever heard of it done intensively? My friend thought her son had done a 2 week intensive through the school, but I’ve never heard of it done this way. I’m not homeschooling my son and 5th grade is already REALLY DIFFICULT. I now understand why some kids would want to drop out of school.

Fast ForWord Language can be done for 100 minutes a day, 5 days a week, for 4-8 weeks, 75 minutes per day, 5 days a week, for 6-10 weeks, or 50 minutes a day, 5 days a week, for 8-12 weeks. These are the only choices, so your friend must be incorrect.

I personally would not recommend that you do this while he is in fifth grade unless you pull him out of school and homeschool. Winter break will not work unless you have at least 4-6 weeks off from school. Fifth grade has plenty of homework demands as it is. FFW is tiring and I just don’t believe you will gain much by doing FFW on top of an already demanding day. Summer is the time to do it, unless of course, the school is offering it during the school day for 50 minutes when the child wouldn’t miss important classroom iinstruction.

Janis

Janis,
I wonder if this was some type of experimental situation FFW set up with the school district? Hummmmm…

My husband was able to load FFW on our non-apple computer so maybe I’ll have my son try it out tonight or this weekend. I just need to pick up some headphones.

Although, maybe I should try to get the school to provide FFW since it may not be good to start right away. I do plan on having an advocate at the IEP meeting. If I put together all of the information I have that indicates this could be a very helpful program for my son, perhaps I’d have a good case? Honestly, it’s hard to imagine the school doing anything for my son.

Our winter break is 4 weeks so we probably could do FFW then. I could even start it one week before break.

Laura,

The issue of doing FFW in school is always…what will the child be missing? You have to determine if he could miss a class for several weeks unless it could be done during resource time. It is very hard to say whether the school system would do it or not. I asked my special ed. director about doing it with one of my students this year and she said the results are uncertain about FFW and she did not want to do it until there was more evidence of who it helps. But in actuality, I think the issue is more…if we provide it for one child, how many more would request it? It’s expensive to add on to the cost already incurred by other services. But it never hurst to ask.

You do know you have to have a specific kind of headphones, right? Here is a kind that an APD specialist recently recommended on a list I am on:

Panasonic RP-HT711 Headphones

I bought a set on ebay for something like $40, I think.

Janis

Laura, refresh my memory a little. Is your son in special education? I know you mentioned processing speed? Are there significant delays in language, attention, reading? It does not hurt to ask for FFW. Your district may have a contract with Scientific Learning. Then they may have a certain number they can put on the program each year. You, as parents, can easily demonstrate that you have done many things on your own to help your child. You have paid for testing and services and not asked for reimbursement. Now, you would like the school district to provide FFW. Other districts DO! Why not your district? Perhaps they wouldn’t mind paying a private provider if they can’t do it.

I have been told by another parent that my school district had tried using FFW a few years ago (my friends son participated in their “trial program”), but they don’t offer it. I heard that one parent “fought the district” to get it for their child, but that’s all I know.

My son is not in special education and he receives no services. He doesn’t even have an IEP, but the teachers have always allowed slight modifications in his work because there are some things he just cannot do. After a recent neuropsychological evaluation I was told he fits the DSM for HF autism, but the neuropsych decided not to include this on the report because she didn’t want to label him.

The reason I want to do FFW is because I’m beginning to suspect he has temporal processing problems (An EEG he had as a toddler showed temporal lobe slowing). According to research I’ve read FFW may help with temporal processing.

But just how I can convince the school about this and how it may be helpful is another matter altogether! If I bring in data, test reports research, and an advocate would it help? Since I can get FFW at a reasonable cost from my friend, I’m thinking I might be best off doing it myself and just explaining to the school that my son needs to do this program so any homework may not get done. In fact, maybe I can just set it up where his “homework” is FFW.

It would be nice if they would pay, but I’m so used to them ignoring me. Also it’s so incredibly frustrating fighting for these things that I’ve found it’s much easier just to do this kind of thing on my own.

I definitely understand frustration. I also know you have many years ahead. It might be good to have an IEP in place so that services are available when you want them. If he is eligible for services you do not have to accept ones that you do not feel are appropriate. As we went through middle school, I had my son mainstreamed for most classes, but did take advantage of testing accomodations. Now, even though he is in a private high school, he had testing at the public school that will insure accomodations in college. As far as FFW you could put a request in writing and receive their written response for your file. You should choose the battles you want to fight, but don’t be intimidated by your district. It doesn’t hurt to ask and to remind them that you are out there doing your best and a little help would be appreciated.

With no IEP you have no basis to even ask for FFW at school. So you are definitely looking at doing it yourself. Do you understand how FFW works? It costs $850 just to have the license to do the program. The friend could serve as the provider for free or for a low price.

Janis

I did request an IEP meeting to go over the testing. I’m pretty sure he’ll have an IEP this year, but I don’t know if he’ll qualify for services. It astounds me how poorly they’ll allow a kid to perform before they even take notice. I may try asking for FFW through the school since we wouldn’t be starting until 1-2 weeks prior to winter break (And I haven’t gone to “battle” in quite a while! :wink:).

I’ve had difficulty loading FFW onto my computer. My friend said there’s some “trial exercises” (or ?) so I can have him go through a little bit of it to figure out where in the program he should start. Is this true? Or do we need to pay the licensing fee first? Do you actually need those specific headphones? I have some high quality digital headphones I had planned to use.

As I recall, you start at the beginning. A child who has less problems will go through it faster. It automatically adjusts to the child. The first couple days are shorter—less exercises.

I think the specific headphones are important. I know you have to have certain ones to do listening therapies as well (the same ones as FFW). I think it has to do with the range of sounds—see if the ones you have are on the list at FFW site.

Beth

There are many choices of headphones, but the ones I listed were recommended by an audiologist who frequently puts kids on FFW. They are some of the least expensive ones. I think I paid in the thirty dollar range. I haven’t tried getting into the sample lessons yet. If I do, I’ll let you know.

Janis