New twist on perseveration now that he's 15...HELP!

Are you concerned about what he is doing or might do at their houses or do you just feel left out? How do the families of the kids feel? Do they care if your son is always at their house?

If the families really don’t care and you feel comfortable with him being at their houses but just don’t like it, I’d let it go. There are bigger battles you may need to fight with a teenager. For some reason, some kids houses always seem to be the preferred stop. When I was a kid, my best friend and I were always at her house. Not sure exactly why—we had a nice enough house and family.

Beth

I work with teens on a daily basis and my guess is that it is typical behavior!

Thanks for the replies.

We’re about as sure of what he’s doing at his friends’ homes as I think anyone can be with a teenager. He’s a “fun” kid, and I believe his freinds’ parents/families enjoy him.

I suppose I like being at my friends’ homes more than my own too at that age— just because it was something different.

However, I have a sneaky feeling that this may have something to do with the fact that many of his friends’ moms aren’t home— I am, and I’ve probably been too obviously present at times…

What about when the kids are over next time trying to be less obviously there? Like maybe go do something in another room and let them think you can’t hear them? Kids at that age do enjoy feeling independent and if the other parents are not there that could be part of it. What about if you planned some outings for something that would be considered fun (depends on your child) and let him invite a friend or two? This may seem sneaky but if you spoil his friends with some treats, like homemade cookies or something, then maybe the friends would prefer your house and put pressure on your son to hang out there!

I would worry a lot about a home without a parent around. It is far too easy to get into experimenting with tobacco and pot and alcohol and crime if nobody is watching. His friends’ parents are either *far* too trusting or uninformed about how common these things are; yes, even more common in “good” neighbourhoods where the kids have more money and cars.
Usually it’s not a big sudden thing, but a slow slide down a slippery slope — today Joe tries a cigarette, next week Jim tries one too, five months later everyone is smoking and the non-smoker gets laughed at until he joins in; similarly with moving from pocketing a pack of cigarettes up to a few years later stealing cars to joyride.

The suggestion about inviting friends to activities is a good one.

I’ve been thinking about your post and the parents not being home is the biggest problem. I agree with Victoria. That would bother me as well but I tend to be a little overprotective in some ways.

My older daughter (13 in about two weeks) spends a lot of time at her best friend’s house. She sleeps over there far more than the friend comes here. At first it bothered me and we would really try to have them come here. Sometimes they do. But, we are very friendly with the other parents so we discussed it with them. This was a few years ago. It turns out that their daughter does not like to be away from home and has anxiety about going other places overnight. She will come here sometimes but not many other places. Her parents truly don’t mind having my child around frequently and we know the parents so well that we don’t worry. However, the girls are not alone and we as parents keep in touch.

Another idea for your son and his friends might be to try something like a movie night. Take them to the video store and let them rent a bunch of movies, let them put the volume up and make popcorn, and then disappear somewhere in the house!

My older 2 are 16 and 19 so I think its typical stuff

But, what I have learned the hard way…

Is anyone driving yet? Are you sure he is where he says he is? Have you stopped by to see? Called and spoke with the parents?

My kids have cell phones-it is well worth the cost and these days with family plans, its not expensive anyway

I have been know to call the cell and ask to speak to the adult in the house.

My oldest told my he was staying at MAtts house overnight and Matt told his mom they were at mine and, naive moms we were with those first boys, we never questioned. Turns out they were out all night “driving around”

And I imagine more than just driving….

I’m on my second like glue ;)

We had a couple of exchange students. The first was almost too good to be true, but the second was trouble with a capital T. He smiled and agreed to everything to your face and then did anything he wanted behind your back. He was seriously into rollerblading and stunts, which I encouraged, great athletics as long as his parents agreed, but he met a few of the wrong crowd doing this.
The first real blowup happened when he met his friends to practice on the university campus. They got bored, took the bus into Washington DC, and were practicing at night on the plaza of an office building. The watchman came and they ran away from him. He thought this was a huge joke; we tried forcefully to get through to him that what with the crime rate in DC and the guards carrying loaded guns and the fact that he had just passed his eighteenth birthday so if he was caught he would be in the holding cell with some very not nice people, this was not funny; also that with us not knowing where he was and him risking legal trouble, complete with follow-up visa trouble, this was very much not funny.
I don’t think he gets the point to this day.
The second big blowup, he had spent the weekend with a friend whom we did not know, although we did pry an address and phone out of him. We had planned a family outing on Sunday afternoon (something required in the exchange contract anyway) but he just didn’t feel like going. We went to pick him up anyway, and found him crowding in a car with his buddies to go to the skate park. Again I approve of the skate park, the problem was a car overloaded with six or seven teen boys, none in seatbelts, heading out alone and unsupervised for a sixty-mile trip on some of the most dangerous and overcrowded highways in the country. And no guarantee of sobriety.
He threw a fit when we wouldn’t let him go and the exchange organization moved him away to a more “sympathetic” family. I was sorry to lose the relation we had been trying to build, but honestly could not be left in that kind of Catch-22 legal situation, being officially responsible for a young person but without any control whatever.

When the kid is fifteen and you do still have some control, this is the time to set *fair and reasonable* guidelines. If you wait until he is already used to doing anything he feels like for a year or two and then try to pull back, it is going to be trouble.

Thanks everyone for your replies, and, WOW, some of the stories! Enough to make your hair stand on end.

We found out, at least in this particular friend’s case, what the fascination is…our son came home obviously “high” on pot. This is always a suspicion because he has told us that he enjoys pot and intends to use it occasionally. Obviously, we make sure he knows the consequences for this if we see any signs of pot use.

At 15, we (and he) feel that we can’t keep “babying” him, i.e., trying to protect him from the consequences of his actions by not letting him spend time in homes where we suspect there isn’t an adult around and/or the kids are playing with pot or other things. Although we live in a very nice neighborhood, most of the kids his age are doing the same thing. We’d have to lock him in his room for the next three or four years to keep him away from the negative influences. And, quite frankly, HE is the one making the bad choices—no one is pushing him into them.

I guess my question is—how much do you all with 15 year olds monitor their activities? For instance, he wants to have a sleepover at the same friend’s home who he smoked pot with. We can refuse such things and have a constant war at home or let him go, hope he makes good decisions, and, if not, let him accept the consequences. How do you all draw that line between trying to keep them safe and letting them grow up? Help!

My child is 14 and a girl so maybe I don’t understand your world. But I would never say yes to a sleep over under the circumstances you describe. In my mind, he has proved himself to be untrustworthy with that friend in that house. I would consider letting him have the friend sleep over but if he wants lots of time without supervision I would say no. In my mind, he lost that priviledge when he choose to smoke pot.

Beth

Im 100% with Beth!

Yes, there comes a time when we need to step back and let them make their own decisions but IMO 15 is a good three years too young

College, or whatever post high school route he chooses, will come soon enough. Now he is at home under your supervision.

I KNOW my kids will do things I dont approve of. I was a total goodie two shoes and I still broke a few rules in college.

But it WAS college and I was 18+

My hope for my kids is to put it off as far as possible so they can make mature decisions.

I dont know if theres any evidence out there but I would suspect that the earlier one starts to use illegal substances, the more likely they are to become dependent or use stronger substances because they are more likely to make poor choices across the board

Ms goody two shoes here drank illegally in college but only on weekends. It never occured to me to drink during the school week, KWIM? My college friends who had been drinking bigtime since high school didnt make that distinction

Thanks, I agree with MaryCas and Beth. That’s why we keep pulling in the reins. I was also a “goody two shoes” at least until college, when we also smoked pot occasionally, but only on the weekends when we were going to be home. And, again, that was at 18, not 15!

Acrowell

I have a 14-year-old and if I ever had any cause to suspect drinking or drugs her life would change drastically. For one, she wouldn’t be allowed to visit that friend ever again. Also, she would lose the privlidge of going to ANY friend’s house. In fact, I would ground her until she was 18 —and yes, she’d HATE me, but I’m her mom! That’s normal for teens to hate their parents. I’m not her “friend” I’m her parent. My job is to help her make the right decisions. Teens are NOT developmentally ready to make these decisions on their own. There is research proving that the area of the brain that evaluates risky behavior is still not developed during the teen years.

I’d also let her know that we would be starting monthly drug testing (you can get this done though a physician and also some cities offer this for parents). If the behavior continued I would move her to another high school (although I’d let her know about this ahead of time so she would be aware of the consequences.

The other evening I went too a city sponsered presentation about teens. Here’s a website for more information the program:
http://www.legacyofhope.com/

One more thing, a couple of years ago I happened to come across a book at Barnes and Nobles that showed, I believe it was MRI or Spectra images of the brain after drug or pot smoking. The photos do show lots of holes (a brain turning into swiss cheese!!!!). It’s quite sobering.

I’d be really interested in hearing how monthly drug testing, grounding for life, etc. works in practice (rather than in theory…) from people who have gone that route. It seems to me that that would only cause a kid to lie and sneak around and alienate them from their parents. From everything I’ve read and heard, a kid has to want to quit using marijuana or any other drugs, or nothing does much good and can do harm, i.e., rehabilitation programs which only teach a kid how to be a more clever drug user…

Personally, I don’t think long term grounding works. But I think you can restrict what a child is allowed to do. Basically, I would insist on supervision at all times. That would mean they would not be allowed to be at anyone’s house when a parent is not home (and I would check). And yes, a clever child may find a way to do what they want to do anyway but you can make it harder for them.

Beth

Beth, I completely agree with you. That’s the tack we’ve decided to take. We aren’t going to set up a police state in our home via drug testing, video cameras, etc., (but, don’t think we haven’t seriously considered it…), and we found out that trying to pick his friends didn’t work (nice family in our neighborhood, mother a teacher, kid an A-student in a private school who holds a part-time job, etc. but sneaked a quart of vodka into our home for a sleepover one night…) However, we are going back to checking with parents to make sure they’re home and whatever else we can do to limit his opportunities to indulge until he’s old enough to make his own informed decision and out on his own…

Another long and thoughtful reply got eaten by the computer! Try again.

Pot is everywhere by now. The prohibition method just doesn’t work.
Smoking marijuana now is like beer drinking a few generations ago, just something young guys do.

What does work is *education*, not scare tactics.
(The brain like Swiss cheese is hard drugs and alcohol, not marijuana — please don’t overdo the negatives or you will lose your listener.)
Talk about things, research and read books, find out facts (driver’s ed has some good info), find the *real* negatives like memory loss (not good for LD), dropping out of school and college, car crashes and deaths, losing licenses etc., and keep talking about it.

Yes, starting any drug when very young, tobacco or alcohol or pot (or sexual relations) before age 12 is known to lead to much higher levels of dependence and other problems. Yes you do have to protect the young ones. In other contexts I posted that I would worry a *lot* about leaving an 11 or 12 year old alone in a house and in fact wouldn’t leave them without an adult around until 15 or 16, and this is one good reason why not.

The very strict approach — searches and drug tests and grounding until they are eighteen — is high-risk; sometimes it may work, but far too often the young person rebels and runs away, or else learns to sneak and cheat.

One approach that can be effective is to stop paying for the pot. Where is the kid getting the money after all, if not from you? If he has to work a job to get pocket money then suddenly throwing away three hours of work for a smoke is going to be a lot less tempting.
There is one danger of this method, if the kid is in a crowd where shoplifting or petty theft are common he may turn to that as a way to pay for smoking so things can get worse, so think before cutting off the cash.

You can’t choose you child’s friends, but you can try to involve him in activities that will both keep him too busy to get in trouble and be places where he can meet more positive friends.

Honestly, I haven’t used long-term grounding or drug testing so I don’t know how it would work. (Also, I’ve never had to actually ground my kids for any great length of time. Once I took Play Station away for a month when my son lost his temper and broke an expensive item- he also had to do extra chores to help pay for the item- but that’s about the worst I’ve ever had to deal with).

With drug testing, the speaker at the seminar I attended said that it encourages kids to “stay clean” because they know they might get tested at any time. I don’t know how successful this is. I suppose a really clever kid could always get someone else’s urine sample (hard to imagine, but I’ve heard of atheletes doing this).

I think the real key is staying involved and keeping the lines of communication open. Also, hug your teens, tell them you love them and let them know you care. We hug our little kids so easily and then often let that go as they get older.

Educate them, listen to them, keep them busy and even get them involved with volunteering. I think for LD kids particularly, we need to get them involved with positive things that help build self-esteem and develop positive friendships. Help them make goals for themselves.

Also, know your child. What helps them learn? (My daughter is a “reading addict” so I try to find books that help her learn about situations she may face, how to handle them, negative consequences, etc… Now that she’s in high school I’ve been looking for books that touch on subjects like peer pressure, drugs, relationships, etc…).

I think the teen years are incredibly challenging today. These kids are exposed to, and encouraged to participate, and think in such negative ways.

Today while exercising I got talking to the woman who works there. Her son is now a freshman in college. She told me how he was on a downward spiral. They put him in a Catholic high school to get him away from his friends. He lasted a year but his constant challenging and refusal to follow the rules left the admnistration less than welcoming about continuing. So they put him in the neighborhood high school. They lasted 6 months there. She said she was afraid he was going to end up in jail. He was smoking pot and doing other things but was talking his way out of everything. I guess he is quite charming and even had the policemen bring him home laughing . She felt like she wasn’t being held accountable and they were at a loss as to what to do.

They sent him to a military type school in the Carribean where they didn’t even see him for six months. He was there for a year and a half. She said it was full of kids like him—smart, class clowns, made friends easily, but were on a downward spiral.

She didn’t even see him for six months. She talked to someone at the school every two weeks. I don’t know if I could do what she did but I thought I’d tell about it since you asked about what people really did.

Beth

Thanks for sharing that Beth. I wonder how that boy is doing today.

I sympathize with that mom, trying to save her son. I also wonder if she, like we have done with our son, tried to protect him and “save” him from the consequences of his actions through the years. We felt that we were doing the right thing because he just didn’t seem to “get it” in terms of much understanding of cause and effect, and we (I…) really felt like he would only be needlessly hurt by consequences and become an angry child. By, the way, this is about relatively minor issues such as not waiting to be called on in class or not staying seated, etc. We (I…) felt that I had been wounded when he didn’t get his hand stamped in kindergarten for doing a “good job” because he just couldn’t stay focused on the teacher with all those wonderful prospective playmates around.

I also have a friend who did the “tough love” thing with her son. Called the sheriff on him for having pot, left him in Juvelile Hall a couple of times, etc. It didn’t stop his pot smoking— he’s still an occasional smoker but otherwise fairly normal, productive 19-year-old.

What it did do was severely damage his relationship with his Mom (although it was already on shaky ground…) I believe that our relationship with our son must come first and, no matter what else we do, we need to stay his loving concerned parents who will be here to support him if he needs or wants help or counseling but who will not rescue him from the consequences of his actions if he decides to make bad choices.

Of course, we’re dealing with a kid who knows right from wrong and has never really gotten in trouble in his life. At this point, his pot use is very intermittent and doesn’t interfere with his school or other activities. Our opinions could significantly change (but I’m not sure…) should his use escalate.

He is a freshman in college at a local university—living in the dorms. She told me it was the right thing to do, even though it was hard. She felt like he appreciated her and her husband more.

I don’t know if she tried to save him. I do know that he had a hard time all the way through school. He just wanted to be the class clown and didn’t want to follow rules. He started out in parochial school which didn’t work. But she was constantly being called into school in public school too. Nothing big—but he wasn’t your quiet well behaved kid either.

She didn’t seem to feel like she sacrificed her relationship with him. In fact, we had another conversation where she told me (before I knew all this) that they had pushed him to live in the dorms (the university is only 35 miles from where we live) because they thought it would be better for him. He wanted to stay at home.

She also told me that the police brought him home multiple times and almost always let him off because he was so charming. She tried to get them to hold him accountable but everybody kept saying he was just a good kid. She said her son had the attitude that he could get out of everything and that he was starting to take bigger and bigger risks, which scared her. That is when they decided to send him away.

Beth

Beth, I’m so happy to hear that that boy is doing well and that his relationship with his parents is intact.

Scarily, he sounds a lot like my son. He’s very cute, bright, and funny. He has always had amazing verbal skills (up near genius level…) and has used them to “schmooze” his way out of things, although he has never really done anything to get himself in trouble until the pot issue came up.

At this point, I’m hoping that his pot use will disappear or at least stay at a very intermittent level.