OT: Disturbed kid on Dr. Phil Prime Time

From what I see of the Dr. Phil show — never watch it all the way through, too much voyeurism, but that’s another issue — what gets on the TV is not the whole story (Thank Heaven!) I believe that he does several home visits and follow-up visits and that he has staff people and support groups for the more serious case — on the show he occasionally refers to this kind of thing. I don’t think he is any less responsible than the general run of psychologists, appears to be a lot more responsible than a number that I’ve met.

As far as the disturbed kid, well that is a messy issue. If it is a new short-term behaviour, some kind of acting out because of the stresses going on, maybe the family counselling will help. I wouldn’t want to get involved myself but that’s why I didn’t go into psychology. One hopes that a TV psychologist wouldn’t take on a genuine psychopath (please!)

Well, I think on this prime time show, the first goal was to get the dad to accept and agree that his son had some serious problems. The dad said he was just being a boy. Then Dr Phil said he was going to work with them throughout the year. He said they had already tried medication.

Maybe over the course of the year, Dr. Phil will have a mental ill eval done on the kid and he’ll get dx with something or the other.

We only see a few minutes of what the boy is like, when they tape hours and hours of home life. Maybe it is an environmental thing for him and not biochemical.

Who knows, but I’ll look forward to following the story on his web site (since I work and can’t watch his daytime show).

I missed it but think he is getting them into therapy and that is the right thing. The person working with them can tease out the innate issues from the environmental.

It’s a start.

But I watched Dr Phil all the time when I worked part time and he does seem to lean towards environment over nature.

I guess most of society does, don’t you think?

Every day I age and expereince things, I am more and more convinced nature is far stronger than environment

I know Dr. Phil does his homework, but if you believe something to be environmental, believe it is almost always environmental don’t you think that any research he does will tilt that way?

I know the kid was on medication— hmm not sure entirely, but they had been to many doctors to see what was wrong with him. But as we know here so well you can go to many of the wrong doctors. If he, say, has bipolar disorder (which is what some of the parents on the Dr. Phil board thought— had similar children), and no one was looking for this, it is likely no one would have found it.

Yes, I think dad needed a reality check in. Or perhaps he was too embarrassed and upset to really believe his own senses. In that case, maybe it was good for him to see that these were not trivial characteristics. So maybe that part will be good for the father.
(Or maybe terrorize him more into a fit of denial about the kid).

Anyway I will be interested to see any kind of follow up. But I cannot believe that a purely psychological approach will work.

I’m still painfully reminded of the Bruno Bettleheim years re: autism. He could substantiate his “claims” about the kids inadequate parenting. The claims might even have been true, but they had nothing whatsoever to do with autism. I know of several parents who were still hurt (years and years later) by the assertion that they caused their child’s autism. The “child” might be in his late thirties, and years of saying that autism was a brain disorder (even in a supporting and caring environment) never really erased those years of being blamed.

—des

[quote=”victoria”]As far as the disturbed kid, well that is a messy issue. If it is a new short-term behaviour, some kind of acting out because of the stresses going on, maybe the family counselling will help. I wouldn’t want to get involved myself but that’s why I didn’t go into psychology. One hopes that a TV psychologist wouldn’t take on a genuine psychopath (please!)[/quote]

I didn’t get the impression that this was short term behavior, some kind of new phase. But there wasn’t enough detail to tell. I doubt a kid would get into animal torture as a short term reaction to stress though.

I wouldn’t put him past taking on a genuine psychopath or some serious mental illness. He already has gotten kind of a god complex, imo.

—des

I know I sounded a little more nurture than nature on my prior post. I’m really more of a nature person. I think nature has more impact than nurture. But, I think you really have to rule out nurture very agressively and thoroughly because I think a lot of kids are really getting *messed up* in the nurture department - and I mean environmental issues as well as parenting issues. Additives, perservatives, and processed food in the diet, all the, uh… waves in the atmosphere from cell phones, wireless technology, etc., as well as parents being too busy all the time, overscheduled kids, etc, the sex and violence in the media. I think it all ads up.

My son was in public school having a horrible time. His dx include LDs and ADHD and speech issues. His behavior was bad.

I transferred him to a private school for kids with LD and/or ADHD and I can’t tell you what a difference it has made in his entire life…behavior wise, etc. A total change in school environment - to one that knows how to educate kids with LD/ADHD made a total turnaround in his behavior. He was medicated in both places with the exact same meds. Using nurture, his bad behavior was eliminated.

I agree with Dr. Phil you have to do anything it takes to help these kids even if it means quitting a job or, in my case, taking out loans to pay tuition. I talk to moms of LD/ADHD kids in the public school and their kids are being sent to the office, getting detentions, etc and I tell them to apply to the school my son goes to and they say, I can’t afford that!! I couldn’t either, but it changed my son’s life.

>I know I sounded a little more nurture than nature on my prior post. I’m really more of a nature person. I think nature has more impact than nurture. But, I think you really have to rule out nurture very agressively and thoroughly because I think a lot of kids are really getting *messed up* in the nurture department - and I mean environmental issues as well

Oh I’m quite sure that in a severe case like that that there are nuture issues as well. Though some might be a bounce back effect. The child is strange practically from birth, so the kid responds to that, as well as to whatever biology there is. I also think that, I think in this case, the father was gone a lot, and that sort of thing. And the parents fought in front of him. Well I wouldn’t say these things are great, but they wouldn’t *cause* should a serious problem. They are incidental factors. Nobody is a perfect parent. Electronic media, inconsistently parenting, violence on tv, lack of time with parents, it could add up over and over and you would never get a kid as messed up as that one.

>My son was in public school having a horrible time. His dx include LDs and ADHD and speech issues. His behavior was bad.

Yes, my nephew is no angel in school, esp, either. He has PDD. There are all sorts of environmental factors in his own case. But I think it is mostly the PDD.

>was medicated in both places with the exact same meds. Using nurture, his bad behavior was eliminated.

Yes but this is often the case with ADD/LD kids. The environment of school is just so frustrating. Take him out of that frustration and he will be much improved. When my nephew has a one on one, his behavior is much different than it is without one. One year he was an honor student in junior high with LOTS of supports. They took the supports away and he had an awful time.

>I agree with Dr. Phil you have to do anything it takes to help these kids even if it means quitting a job or, in my case, taking out loans to pay tuition.

Well I agree with that part, if it is possible. I think the expense of caring for this kid the rest of his life, perhaps in jail, would make any expense now worth it. I just didn’t agree with anything else he said. Perhaps with medication, etc., he would be responsive to therapy and the family would benefit from help in handling him.

—des

I have sort of a nice report about this whole topic. On another list (way off topic as it happens), someone discussed what sounds like an Aspergers (well he was dxed AS), but the person thought he was just “spoiled”. I was able to give this person some useful links and info.
This was all nice, as I was basically blowing off steam. You never know I guess.

—des

I have a background in working with severely emotionally disturbed children - over 20 years classroom including a locked psychiatric unit. The behaviors exhibited by the boy in the show mentioned led me to believe the child had been a victim of severe early abuse - perhaps sexual. Most “smearers” act out in a world in which their attention and power are virtually nill. With such behaviors, attention and the power are certainly obtained. I think it simpleton to believe that all of this is to achieve Dad’s attention. Of course, I don’t have access to Dr. Phil’s assessment information, nor the particulars of the case - I would be the last person to say he missed the ball on that one. However, if encountering such behaviors - it is extremely crucial that competent therapy (and I stress COMPETENT) is mandatory. Every case is different and never can assumptions be made. Once one begins that, it is time to get out of the field or take a break.

Ken Campbell (Hurricane Weary in Gainesville, FL)

Well something serious is going on to be sure. I think that’s why I reacted like I did. Several parents on the Dr. Phil forum said they had bipolar children that smeared. The behavior was controlled on medication. But regardless, this doesn’t seem like a good candidate for tv “therapy”.

—des