Classes in high school-college prep

Fight to keep him out of the non-college class.

Most parents do not realize that they, the parents, have the final say on the child’s course choices in high school. Parents are supposed to sign for course registration and course changes. Guidance counsellors much prefer to act as if they had the power and to put kids in classes which the guidance counsellors think are suitable. Now, be reasonable; if you get a good guidance counsellor you can work for the best interests of the child together. But do not let them order you and the child around; they are not the final law. And make it very very clear to your child that he does not change classes without you going in and signing for it (some people will do things behind your back, illegally but too late to change when you find out next semester.)

Thank you so much! I have looked through the school’s literature and there is absolutely nothing about who gets the final say except for advance placement classes. I dont think that they want parents to know.
Kathe

One thing I would like to share, just in general, is that IMO there are a lot of scare techniques out there regarding what our kids have to do in high school in order to get in college

It simply isnt THAT difficult

Absolute worst case scenario would be your son might have to spend a year at junior college instead of a 4 year college to ‘catch up’ but he wont be the only one

Plenty of capable kids dont take the classes they are supposed to or do not put forth the effort, only to realize the error of their ways and turn it around. There are plenty of opportunities for them to do that

I also cannot believe this is absolutely a 4 year program-that simply doesnt make sense. Is the honors program a guarantee? Of course not and this should be no different!

I think you have the right to insist he be in regular classes, regardless of his test scores, but you dont want to overwhelm him his first year out either, KWIM????

Ideally, pulling him out of this class for second semester would be an excellent ‘test’ before he hits high school. Maybe you should push for that..I think they’ll back down if you’re firm

The class that he is in now is in addition to his reading and english classes. I just got his midquarter report and he has a B in English and a C+ in reading and literature. I am very pleased about this because these grades were achieved without the 504 accomodations he is supposed to get (books on tape and study guides- I am still going to the school to complain, though-they need to be doing this)
The high school course book says that once you are on one track you cant move up so once you are in thats it. I agree that’s nuts-it works that way for honors classes, too. I want him in the regular English class-I think he can handle it and we can always change him if he doesnt.
I have left a message for the reading teacher to call me-still havent heard from her. Next week I am making an appointment with a guidance conselor at the high school.
I will keep everyone posted-and I have sworn that I will not back down!
Kathe

The usual problem is that you cannot move up levels, although it is all too easy to move down. In the lower level classes you don’t cover the materials needed for the higher level classes. Often kids who are experiencing difficulty go looking for help, and the “help” they get it to be told they belong in less demanding classes.

Your high school is better than most in admitting the problem of changing levels openly in the course book — a lot of places leave this as a nasty surprise for the student in junior or senior year who starts thinking about college and discovers that three years ago he was tracked out of college prep without ever knowing it.

Yes, you can go to many junior colleges and sometimes unselective four-year colleges without all of the college prep classes. Sometimes taking a couple of years at a junior college is a good thing and I recommend it.

However, I taught those upgrading classes in math and the success rate is very very low. About 40% of the people entering pass one level, about 10% two levels, and about 1% three or more levels. This is not an easy out. Possible with dedication and a goal in mind but not easy. It is probably less disastrous in English but still not the easy out.

As far as unselective four-year colleges, the problem is the reputation of the degree after you graduate. For some careers this does not matter at all (eg art), for some you have to make sure the school is at least nationally accredited (eg teaching), and for others reputation is very important (eg MBA).

Going back to talking about high school, it is often possible to avoid having to upgrade in college if you can squeak through in high school, and that’s why I recommend sticking with those college prep classes - better a C in a class that goes where you want to go than an A in a dead end.

Another thing that high schools don’t like to tell you is that you can sometimes get up to a higher level by taking an extra year. Schools dislike this because it costs money and ruins their nice little pattern of shoving everyone through on a conveyor belt, but it is generally legal.

When my child (and exchange students) were in the wrong place, I didn’t wait for the appointment next week. In some cases the place is very busy and that is an honest appointment, but many times it is a delaying tactic and when you arrive they tell you that you should have come in a week ago and all the class changes are now finished. I will go in and ask for the principal and/or the head of guidance, at first politely and if they get obstructive, more and more forcefully until it is less trouble for them to deal with me than to put me off any longer.

Thank you for all your excellent points. I think that they will really help me make the case for his placement. I especially agree that a C in regular English is better than an A in dead end. Placement is in Janaury and the only reason that I am waiting until the end of the week to make the appointment is that I am willing to wait a reasonable amount of time for the reading teacher to call me. I fully expect to get nothing but hemming and hawing out of her and I plan on addressing that with the guidance conselor, too. Namely that I want this addressed now because I dont want any nasty surprises come January.
Thank you so much!
Kathe

An Update-the reading improvement teacher called this morning. She did not have my son’s file in front of her so she would have to get back to me with his test score. I asked her about his placement next year. (No testing-no conference-I guess they just give up on the kids.) She said that since he was in the class this year he would automatically be placed in the noncollege track class next year. I told her my son is planning on going to college and I used Victoria’s quote about a C in regular English being better than an A in the dead end. She seemed to think that I could refuse the placement but then backpedalled a little and said that I should talk to his conselor this year. On to the next step. Thanks for all your support-I felt really ready with what to say and was able to stay focused without getting emotional.
Updates as it happens
Kathe

cuz it sounds like they will try hard to make you back down…my mom went through this with my sister in 8th grade. Mom ignored them and chose the advanced (university-bound) courses anyway. Guess what — my sister did better in HS than I did — she had developed excellent work habits and did not expect to shine — I was a bright kid who had never learned how to work, and I was so shocked by my sudden inability to skim through it all without effort, I crashed and burned…but that’s just the first anecdote.

IN a manufacturing co I worked for a few years back, we had a HS work placement, a Gr. 12 student who wanted to be a machinist (tool and diemaker type, not just a button pusher). He was a typical dyslexic type, but NOT a math genius — IMO, the type of guy that SHOULD be a tool & diemaker tho — but not all are gifted! When doing up his report, I asked the manager if he was ‘suitable for this career’…he said ‘YEAH, but I don’t know what they teach them now! He’ll need about two years of remedial math before he can even start the pre-apprenticeship course!’

Yup, special ed strikes again — this kid may have never been meant for academic-type college courses. But in our local SPED program where he was never pushed or challenged, but was taught ‘at his level’, mostly by people who have no idea of technical math, he did not get the teaching he needed to do what he wanted (and possibly WAS ‘meant’) to do…enter a good pre-apprenticeship program with the goal of becoming a toolmaker. SOOO Stupid! Hope he listened to our manager’s good advice…’get a tutor who understands technical math, and GO FOR IT’!

My son’s 5th grade teacher was a wonderful guy, whose good advice will carry us through the next 7 years. He had a wonderful story about his own journey, quitting school at 16, working in dead-end factory job, then returning to school and despite the negative comments of one teacher who said ‘you’re not smart enough to go to University’, getting through the advanced level courses and university successfully, achieving his goal…and now works to HELP OTHERS who face similar challenges…judging by his spelling errors, he may not have been identified but he MUST have struggled…!

Stand your ground — believe in your kid! I’ll look forward to hearing how it goes…

Everybody has a chance at college and a good chance. There are many colleges out there. Anybody who wants to attend college certainly can.

I spoke with the reading improvement teacher. She didnt know how the placement system worked. Talked to his guidance conselor she didnt know how this actually works. She suggested that I speak with his reading teacher. I plan on doing this on Tuesday (as well as then calling the high school) Nice to know that my child’s future is being handled so well. On the surface no one seems to have any problems with my request but the conselor said that I was the first person to ever do this! Unbelievable!! Have a great holiday weekend and I will keep you posted. Thank you so much for all your support. I draw from your strength!!
Kathe

Kat, I have a 16 year old son who was in special ed from 1st through 9th grade. At the end of 9th grade they decided he no longer needed his IEP since he was getting good grades. As a Freshman even though he was in specila ed he was allowed to take regular ed classes, the only special ed class he had was a reading class. As a sophmore his first year completely without services he got B’s,C’s, and D’s-as a matter of fact two D’s barely passing the courses. However despite this DS said he would not go back into special ed because he would learn nothing. This year as a Junior he is taking Physics (which he never should of been allowed to take), Algebra IB, Oral Comm, US History, and Art. The only course he is struggling in is oral comm. He even has a high C average in his physics class (his teacher is great and does and lot of 1 on 1 with him, teacher says he is learning as much as my DS is!). Here is the solution the school and I came up with to address his defecencies, instead of going back into special ed he will take developmental courses at the local community college starting Jan this year, he will get HS credit for them if he scores better then the courses he got a D in last year. The local Community College starts taking students at 16, they were more then pleased that he was interested in addressing his concerns now. Together the HS and the local Community College are going to work to help get him on track. This maybe something you can check into when your child reaches this point if help is still needed. The CC could not believe that someone had thought so far ahead. They looked at his school record and so how much he had started to turn around already. He is currently getting an A in his Algebra IB and Art class, a B in U.S. History, a C+ in Physics, and a D in oral comm. My point is keep up your battle and keep in mind that hope is in sight. Good luck.

Lisa

Our local hs and several pyramid resource people indicated that students with disabilities are supposed to be in classes that are either team taught or self contained. Last year they had students in basic skills as the elective in addition to the sped classes. It didn’t matter what class the child might be successful in or even if the child would not have math for years or physics, etc.

I think this school division gets uglier since the clock is ticking on courses, credit hours, and graduation - less time for parental legal action to get a FAPE.

The only transition related input from those people was to comment on Macdonald’s and suggest that if we agreed with their sped placement, the child could help out with low functionning students on the sped bus.

Use those few D’s to get/keep/maintain a good iep and the high grades to retain the opportunity to continue taking courses that will enable your child to reach potential.

I have sent a message to the reading and English teachers about this and my desire to find out what is going on.
I will keep everyone posted.
Kath

Got an email from the English teacher she said that she would have to find out about placement from the reading improvement teacher. That’s the first person that I spoke with!!!! That woman said that she wasnt sure. Does anyone know what is going on over there?! Tomorrow I am calling the high school and requesting an appointment with a guidance conselor. Hopefully I can get some straight answers there. This is just eating me up inside. I am determined to push on but sometimes it is so draining.
Kat

Sounds like there is an incredible amount of miscommunication over there-well, NO communication

In our high school the counselor would spearhead all this. I cant remember-did s/he steer you to the teachers?

You could go back to the counselor and say “I have spent X number of days attempting to discuss this with my childs teachers and each one has told me they dont know an answer or suggested I ask another teacher. This isn’t working. What is my next step?”

I would do that before the week is out and putting it in writing with a cc to a principal or head of special ed

This is simply out of line IMO-way too much time. They dont have to give you the answer you want ,but it is common courtesy and good consumer relations to give you an answer in a reasonable time frame

After the amazing runaround with the middle school I spoke with the high school counselor. Within 15 minutes I had all my questions answered. When I told him how I came to call him he said “oh, my” and was surprised that I never recieved my sons test scores for the Gates Magintie test without asking for them first. Turns out that the reading skills class is an elective but they really recomment it at the freshman level saying that they have found that it raises the kids reading level by 2 grades. I told him that I was very reluctant to enroll him in anything given the fact that we have never gotten a sense of what the exit criteria was for the middle school class. He said that this class was an elective and we could decide to place him in it or to do so for only one year. He also told me that he and a 504 coordinator would be at my sons 504 meeting in the spring to go over the teacher recommendations. I questioned him about the whole college prep level-at first he seemed bewildered but looked at the course guide that I had read. He said that he understood my confusion-what the course guide means is that you cannot take the third level of the reading skills class as one of your English electives (Brit lit, etc) and expect it to count as a college prep class. What a relief!
Thank you all for your support. My lesson now is to talk directly with the high school and bypass the middle school. I understand why they may not know about the college prep classes but since they make the placement recs there was absolutely no reason why they couldnt have told me how it worked!
On to other challenges,
Kat 8)

We ran into a similar situation last Spring as my son was moving from junior high to high school. Although he had achieved top grades in Challenge Level classes in junior high, the high school did not want to let him take pre-IB (somewhat like AP) English classes because he failed the Basic Standards Test in the 8th grade. The Basic Standards Test is a high-stakes requirement for hs graduation. He failed to pass by two points. I had a good relationship with the Junior High IEP team, and we put a statement, “”(Student) will be allowed and encouraged to take AP, IB, pre-IB and other accelerated classes whenever they are offered, regardless of standardized test scores.” The high school try to quote district policy, but once I pulled out the IEP, they let him into the class. He’s doing great in there, and the teacher has told me that it was definitely the best placement.