geometry or algebra 2?

I have mixed feelings on this. I love geometry, and it was the class that got me into serious math, and taught me how to do real math. But that was a real geometry class. Almost everything I have seen offered in schools under the name of geometry in the last thirty years would better be named Advanced Trivia — memorization of disconnected and therefore useless facts (some of them could be useful under the right conditions, but how do you know which in the heap of junk?) Or then there is the course my daughter got, where they spent all year teaching the introduction and stopped just as they hit the chapter where the course used to start (and this caused her a lot of trouble in later math classes where they thought the kids had been taught something.) So I can see why anyone might want to skip *this* kind of geometry class, even though I most strongly recommend learning real geometry.

The thing with Geometry before Algebra 2 in the present system is that the so-called geometry course isn’t all geometry — there is a lot of other stuff mixed in there. And the so-called Algebra 2 class is definitely not all algebra; almost always trigonometry is in with Algebra 2, so you need the geometry first or you lose out.
Also especially if you have a fairly good high school there is something called “mathematical maturity”. This is a bit hard to define, but it is in math something like reading fluency and comprehension in English. A student may have the basic tools, but needs a lot of work with them to become comfortable and fast enough to use them for more advanced work.
So in general it’s a good idea to stick with the program. Math is cumulative and it only takes a few holes — as happened to my daughter, or with my bad professor — to make the rest a total loss.

Thanks Victoria. His math tutor, who is also a math teacher thought it might work to flip flop the two courses. We wouldn’t have him skip geometry, just take it later, when his brain has had a chance to mature a bit. He has NVLD and I anticipate a lot of problems in Geometry. You have given me some things to think about, before we make any decisions.

His math tutor/math teacher may know the particular program at your school and you may have a program where the courses are really independent.
On the other hand, all too often math teachers just assume that of course students know certain things because “everybody” knows these things. It takes years of working closely with students to plumb the depths. Algebra 2 problems just assume you can automatically do areas, similar triangles, angles, and a host of other things.
Ask her to get a copy of the Algebra 2 book and go over it and compare the level to what he is doing now — usually there is a big, big jump in difficulty of concepts, presentation, and expectations.

Quite a few homeschoolers choose to do an Algebra I/II/Geometry sequence. For one thing, I believe the SAT has more algebra questions on it than geometry questions. For another, in traditional high schools, the first part of Algebra II is a review of Algebra I because the students have forgotten so many things while they were doing geometry.

In my opinion, it wouldn’t hurt at all to change the traditional sequence.

Nancy

I don’t think you can compare homeschoolers’ experience to a school system here. If a homeschooling family meets a topic that hasn’t been prepared, they can either skip it or do some backup work. A student in school doesn’t have this luxury. Also, a relatively small number of homeschoolers have high standards in math — the comment about covering just what is needed to do the SAT’s is symptomatic of this, just doing enough to get by and not actually mastering the topics at a high level. Again a student in a class doesn’t have this luxury to pick and choose just enough to pass the SAT; and if the student is interested in any kind of career that requires more than a minimal standard, the material shouldn’t be skipped over.

I appreciate both your point of views. They are both valid and I am still trying to make a decision. Are there any other LD teachers or math teachers, who also know about non-verbal learning disorder, who might also have an opinion?

Thanks!

Most of the people I know have a fairly strong preference for one or the other, Algebra or Geometry. I think I would stick with the Algebra thread and build that foundation, because if he’s a significantly better “algebra thinker” then he will be more likely to be able to apply the algebra logic to the geometry (which is how an “algebra thinker” like me did reasonably well in it).

You could sneak in some basic principles — seems half of the questions in geometry boil down to knowing that the angles in a triangle add up to 180.

When I attended public school in Montgomery County Maryland in the, ahem, mid-1960’s the normal progression on the so-called college track was Alg. I, Alg. II and then Geometry in the 10th grade.

I feel old and I guess things have changed. I know they tried New Math after I graduated, but then gave up on it after a few years. Maybe the progression of math classes I went through was a failed experiement, too. ;)

John

In the 70’s in your poor neighbor county, PG, it was Algebra I, Geometry, Algebra II Trig, Math Analysis, Calculus. … oh, except the poor slobs who had not gone to Catholic school for elementary, and had been started off in a six-year pilot “gifted” program that supposedly integrated everything… but they ran out of funds in three years & dropped it so those folks got dumped into the sequence midstream. Since my Catholic school background had been deemed Inferior to public schools, I was not eligible for the program… gosh, what a shame…

Well, from what I’ve seen in *most* places in the US the standard progression is Algebra 1, Geometry, Algebra 2. This sequence is not written in stone and there is no particular reason to do it this way.
I was lucky and in Grade 10 got to do both Geometry and Algebra 2 in yet another of those experiments … Our system here is now using a program that supposedly integrates all topics every year (basically omitting most geometry except simple applications), and annoying as the texts are, they’re scoring highest in Canada and one of the highest in North America so it can’t be all bad.

If you step outside whatever sequence your school uses as a standard, the teacher will be expecting the students to know certain material that you haven’t covered, and the other students will be a year or two older and more mentally developed. It’s not the particular sequence that matters, it’s stepping outside it that can leave you with big holes to fill.

Thanks so much to everyone who has posted on my question. My son’s current teacher, math tutor (who is also the math dept. head) and LD administrator all think he should do Algebra 2 next year. I think either class will be difficult, but since I have the math department suggesting we do it this way, I guess we will. Thanks again.

in the us it is like you take algebra I, algebra II, and not take geometry because apparently that is something that is a fair enough component of algebra II and II…that is like the “standard” for when you have to take remedial math at uni. years ago, a good 12 years ago, one had to take geometry after algebra II and then trig or physics… but that is not the norm anymore. double check with reagrds to what your youngster wishes to study at college because there is no point in taking something you do not need if you get a good overview of it in the algebra II. peace