Determining FAST FORWORD level????

FFW Language is all auditory processing. I recommend beginning at the beginning and then see where he is in 10 days. The games will set for his level, how many correct or incorrect responses with move the speed of the sounds faster to normal speech or slower. Our students play the full schedule of five games five days a week. If you need help understanding a game, I’m happy to explain. When he has 5 of 7 games above 80% you could move on to FFW 2, Language to Reading which offers the visual to go along with the auditory.

I have not kept up with all of the Scientific Learning product changes. However, in general, you would want to use FastForword Language for an 11yo. Be sure to doublecheck my information, but I believe FFW Language is the renamed original FFW — the program that has the most research behind it and that is usually the most useful. All of the other products were developed later, after the original program was successful, and most of them were designed to be used before or after Language.

The program is interactive with the learner. If I am remembering the sequence correctly, three correct responses in a row will advance the level of difficulty, while an incorrect response will drop the level of difficulty. The levels are very incremental, so it can take awhile to work up to a level of challenge.

I think the question is not so much whether you should start with Language as it is whether your son has the type of problem likely to respond to FastForWord sound therapy. Although FFW markets their product as useful to all children having trouble with reading, logic tells me it is helpful only to children who have rather specific problems processing the sounds of speech — usually children with certain subtypes of auditory processing disorder. (Some subtypes of auditory processing disorder would not be helped by FFW.)

Are you planning to administer the program yourself?

Nancy

I’m relieved to hear that the program will set for his level. I know the “prep” exercises were much too easy. In fact, some are so easy they don’t make sense. I’ll have to go through them again and ask specific questions.

The CD’s I have here are Language, Language to Reading, Reading, and Middle and High School (My provider tried using this program with her middle schooler). I’m assuming Language would be the first one to start with??? Or would one of the other ones be a better first choise?

I do believe FFW may be helpful for my son. I’m using it specifically to try and help with language processing (particularly language proceessing speed).

I will be administering the program myself (though a provider).

Language would be the one to start with. I believe the company has a policy that you can change to a different program if the current one is too easy, but there is a strict time period for that (10 days?). Ask your provider.

The demo exercises are really just to show you how the program works and show easy levels. In the real program the exercise for change-of-pitch, for example, advances to the point where the sounds become very short and very close together, requiring very fast discrimination. The demo just shows you how this exercise works, not how difficult it becomes.

Nancy

How funny, on the higher levels of the demo even I had some slight trouble. Although part of that may have been that I’m not used to concentrating on my auditory discrimination abilities and also I was just figuring out what’s going on. I hope the program isn’t too difficult to administer for someone who has never done it before.

Also, is each program charged seperately through FFW?

Actually, when it comes to phonemic awareness — and therefore, quite possibly, auditory discrimination — post-puberty folks don’t do as well as younger ones, even if they read very well. It brings up many questions as far as the best way to improve reading skills for older students.

Sue, that makes sense to me. My son hasn’t hit puberty yet so I’m hoping this program will have some effectiveness. I think I did read somewhere it’s best to do this program before age 11 or 12. If that’s true we’re just barely squeezing in the window of opportuntiy.

Sue, but one of the reasons I’ve heard that prepubescent kids (or even adults) (I have heard of this in “good readers” vs not so good readers) was that people who read well no longer heard individual sounds and didn’t really need to. The “hearing individual sounds” is a bridge skill and when you actually read, you don’t need it so much. Even in spelling, a good speller is more likely to see the words in their heads anyway.

I’m not sure if that is a real argument or not. :-) BTW, Barton, for ex. still teaches PA skills to teenage poor readers and it teaches them to poor spellers as well. I’ve seen benefit with it in older kids, otoh, that was in combo with actually teaching reading, vs in isolation. Still not sure that you could argue that just because it might work clinically doesn’t mean that’s the way everyone actually learns, needs to learn.

I also thought that isolated PA teaching was less valuable anyway. That you need to pull it back into reading asap.

Not sure if what I have said here is backed by research. Just some observations and assorted comments as my 1.002¢ worth. :-)

—des

I’d really like to try that PA test myself. Since I really *do* read phonetically, I often confound testers who expect something different.

>>Also, is each program charged seperately through FFW?

Yes. The provider has to order each program, pay for each program (although I think there is now a way for a parent to pay FFW directly, in which case FFW lets the provider know payment has been made), and assign each program to the child.

In terms of administering the program at home, I wouldn’t be concerned about difficulty. The home responsibilities involve making sure that the child does the assigned lessons every day, that the child actually *tries* to get right answers (doesn’t just click randomly to pass the time), and that there is emotional support (a cheerleading section, if you will) as the program is quite strenuous for the child — especially for the child who really needs it.

Nancy

My son was younger—only 7—when we did FFW but I or my husband sat next to him every time he played. We divided the “games” up and he went bike riding between games. He really needed it and found it difficult.

Honestly, we did n’t do a whole lot else while we did it.

Beth

Oh, so each program has a seperate cost! Then this could get quite expensive if one wanted their child to go through all of them. Does “going through” the program mean one would do all of them? Is there any advantage of one program over the other? Is Language a good one to start with and then adjust from there if necessary (within the first few days)?

>Oh, so each program has a seperate cost! Then this could get quite >expensive if one wanted their child to go through all of them. >Does “going through” the program mean one would do all of them? Is >there any advantage of one program over the other? Is Language a >good one to start with and then adjust from there if necessary (within >the first few days)?

Very, very few children would do all of the programs.

Language is, in my opinion, the best one to start with for an 11yo. If it is too easy, that should become apparent quickly. As I recall, the switch to another program needs to be made before the 11th day (in order to not get charged for another program). Your provider should be able to give you that information.

Most children do not need more than Language — in other words, it is usually be sufficient to train auditory processing to optimal levels. At that point you would switch focus to an explicitly taught reading program (ideally one-on-one with a trained tutor). Some children do benefit from additional FFW programs — usually severe cases and/or older children.

I would just start with Language and see how it goes.

Nancy

Nancy,

Thanks for clarifying that for me! My son has already done LMB’s Seeing Stars (at their clinic) and the program helped quite a bit. I’ll probably repeat it next summer prior to Jr. High.

This summer my focus is specifically on language and language processing. We’ll do reading for pleasure and a bit of daily math so we don’t lose skills. But my main emphasis is working on how my son “takes in” language. I do know it’s more than attentional (not an easy thing to determine! But, for example, I have noticed that even when he’s listening he sometimes can’t replicate accurately the sounds in some multisyllable words. Of course, this is just one of a few indicators of a lanugage processing difficulty…i.e. speech immaturity, not hearing conversations, etc…).

Laura,

I am puzzled as to why your provider is not answering these questions! The cost of FFW Language and FFW Language to Reading are $900 each. Why is your provider not training you to use the program? Also, they have to monitor the daily percentages to determine whether the child needs to change programs before the 10th day.

I pretty much agree with Nancy that I’d do FFW Language and then use other things for reading. LMB is a great choice.

Janis

Hi Janis,

My provider does not have a great deal of experience with FFW. Practically all of her clients do PACE.

I have been debating on FFW and still haven’t hooked up yet, but the other day I talked with an SLP who raved about how helpful she’s found it to be with her clients. She feels that for many it helps stimulate their language skills and adds an important language component you can’t get through other programs (like LMB —which she highly recommends). She also mentioned there was a school somewhere that uses FFW on all their students (even those who don’t need it! That may be wasteful, but evidentially they feel it’s useful even still).

I am thinking of doing FFW Language with my child this summer as well. I’ll try and let you know if I do and you do the same!

Janis

Janis,

We started! I’ll let you know how it goes. The first day was EASY. Today was a little more challenging. I have a feeling this may be a loooong summer! :-o