1st day back to school MAJOR disappointment!!!! :-(

OHhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh!!!

I’d be livid too! What an ignorant woman!

I’m so glad your son will be moving out of her class.

Barb

Laura,

I don’t blame you for being furious. All I can say is better to know this the first week of school than after the first quarter.

We have the same issue with cursive in sixth grade. My son was supposed to write everything in cursive. He told me he couldn’t keep up with the notes and it was taking him three times as long to write out definitions. I ended up reading to him because he was so worn out from writing in cursive. I thought that was really a silly use of his energy.

I met with both his teachers on Wednesday and they were very receptive to changing this for him (as well as generally committed to him succeeding this year so hopefully you will get that with a new teacher ). I should say that the one really wants him to do as much cursive as he can, because, like your son’s teacher, she believes in cursive. I told my son that his one teacher really likes cursive so maybe he could do it sometimes to make her happy. I must admit they showed me some of the cursive he wrote for practice and it was beautiful. I then had to get them to understand that writing pretty is not the same thing as thinking and writing.

Don’t know what it is about sixth grade teachers, especially since few adults write in cursive any more. I print or type as does my daughter who is in high school.

I think some people just don’t get LD. My own mother in law has often compared my LD son and my sister-in-law’s down’s syndrome child.

Beth

Good for you on getting the classroom change. My child 6th grade teacher last year made remarks that she didn’t expect much from my child. I too was stunned and couldn’t believe she said that and thought I heard wrong. But she kept making the same comment through out the year and writing on my child’s work asking if she actually did the work.The teacher used to be a special ed teacher. I am sorry that I didn’t speak up earlier to the teacher about it, so good for you and I hope your child gets a new placement.

Sorry. I’m glad you are advocating and insisting right from the start. There are people who should know better, who just don’t get ld. We had teachers who marked math problems wrong because the 5s were backwards. Do we spend time learning new concepts or erasing 5s? The only cursive my son has learned is to sign his name. Underprivileged, underachieving and unmotivated are not ld.

And said something impulsively which got her into a HEAP of trouble and perhaps she has more experience as a GATE teacher and really doesn’t have much experience with kids who have LD’s. I have worked with many general education teachers who don’t realize how to follow an IEP. I wonder too if your DS’s case carrier gave her an orientation to his IEP.

I know young teachers sometimes say things that are not appropriate and wish they could take back after a long hard day. Hopefully, she learned a lesson.

I hope your son’s new teacher works out for you and your DS.

Thanks for listening and understanding. My gut instinct when we first moved to this neighborhood about 4 years ago was to move my son to a different public school. But we lived on a block with a lot of boys his age and I really wanted him to become friends with these kids which I felt would help his social skills. And it did! So that was good.

On the other hand. It’s a highly competitive, push-your-kids, atmosphere and that has not been so good. I’m sure that’s where this teacher’s attitude comes from. But gosh! It’s bad enough when parents do this, but when a teacher does it that’s obnoxious!!!! I know the teacher wasn’t thinking when she said this. She’s actually not a “new” or young teacher. She’s older and has been teaching over 35 years. She may be needing to retire.

Well, Monday we start with another teacher. I hear she’s the “arty music drama” type. I can’t say this is so great, my son does need strong academics (from someone who won’t pound him for not being perfect!). But if the atmospere is more positive, and I get a chance to work with my son afterschool (rather than be bogged down with a lot of afterschool “busy work”), it may not be so bad.

Thanks again for listening and letting me vent here! I know many of you can understand and have similar stories. It’s sad we can’t consistently have wonderful, understanding, well-educated teachers…. which I know there are plenty out there!

She sounds like an archetype of the “high achieving” teacher… these are the ones who just think special ed teachers are Just Soooo “Special” because we have the patience to work with Those Kids…. and she is just so glad in her heart that she doesn’t have to do it.
Unfortunately, this generally means that she feels like if one of Those Kids isn’t learning in her class, well it isn’t her fault (or her responsibility). Unfortuantely at the high achieving schools there is much less of a sense of responsibility for teachers; the parents and students tend to be pushy enough. IT’s horribly unfair and elitist and who knows what other - ist (but based on being the one with the power to make all definitions of success).
Fortunately, she may be educable: she is assuming that because he’s not a high achiever, he must not be motivated or be a hard worker or have ability. If you can find ways to show that he can and will learn - and *really* learn, not get mom to do the asisgnments (though that’s never an issue in those high achieving schools, is it <eye-rolling smirk>)?
So … if there’s some way you can set things up so she can see his strengths, it could be good for him, and for her… and for everybody else she ever teaches.

Sue,
You’re probably right about her being an archetype. Also, she may be educable, but unfortunately I’m quite busy educating my own child and other people’s children (at a school somewhat similar to the one she referred to), so I don’t have time to teach her. In all honesty, I don’t think she’d listen to me. I spoke with other parents whose children have been in her classroom and they said she wants everything to be a certain way and there is no deviation. She’s very hard on kids, and even demeaning. One parent said she thought it bordered on actually being abusive. Doesn’t sound like a great place for any regular ed. kids let alone kids with learning differences!

I’ve enquired more about the current teacher. I’m told she’s “the 60s teacher”; kind of disorganized, forgets about tests, looses grades. This doesn’t sound perfect, but on the other hand she’s suppose to be more multi-sensory. That I do like. Certainly it’s a huge improvement from the other teacher. Also, I do kind of like the idea of having a teacher who doesn’t fit into the school’s typical population (Stepford Wives). I know regardless of who we have, this will be a year of heavy “afterschooling.”

Watts? <bangs head on wall> She needs a good talking to.

“She’s very hard on kids, and even demeaning. One parent said she thought it bordered on actually being abusive.”

Sounds like my 5th grade teacher. By the time I started 6th grade my father was president of the PTA and she didn’t last another month. Agreeing to retire was the first nice thing we saw her do.

Maybe every PTA needs to headed up by a WWII vet with 4 years of service in the Pacific and then a few years of experience as a state trooper. ;)

John

Sigh, no, it doesn’t sound like she’s educable. She’s been trained in the “I’ll be that strict teacher you thank later” school, which unfortunately only worked sort of when dropping out was a viable and even dignified option. (And the unwritten part of that is “this is how we weed out the people who really should go live in Watts, because of course they’re different and inferior, but now we don’t have to worry about it, and we do need somebody to mow our lawns….”)

So… is this new teacher a replacement? Or an add-on?

Sue,

The new teacher is a complete replacement. (Yeah!!!!) We don’t have to do anything with this previous teacher. I imagine she’s probably very glad to get rid of me. In fact, she probably wishes she had never spoken to me at all!!!!

This just goes to show how important professionalism and tact are. I’m still floored that any teacher would actually say something like this. I realize it’s hard being a teacher, and sometimes it’s like being under a microscope, but expressing such blatant prejudism —that’s really surprising.

Oh good god. As if your LD child can’t be high achieving. let’s not even get into the racial part of what she said.

How disappointing for you. The good news is you got action at the school. If you really want to help this teacher get her a copy of Rick LaVoie’s “How difficult can this be”” and ask her to watch it. Maybe she’ll learn something.

The cursive thing is interesting. My son’s school teaches and insists on cursive b/c they strongly believe that it reduces reversals, and that the act of writing is integral to the act of learning to read and spell. They also believe that its faster and important for note taking. however, once a child can decode and is promoted out of a decoding group into a writing group they start to use word processors for writing.

I think there is something to cursive. I’ve heard of others saying it is sometimes easier on fine motor skills (a smoother writing pattern), and it is not that far off from print. Also, I do personally believe it’s helpful to know how to write it out and recognize it.

The biggest problem I have in regular ed. is requiring it in particular situations where it might deter from learning. Here’s my own personal example. I want my son to participate fully in spelling tests. Even if there’s tremendous misspelling I have always requested that (if he can) he be expected to write full sentences like the rest of the students. I believe the more he writes the better he’ll get and it will help him in multiple ways (not just the fine motor skills, but it will help him develop a sense of language structure and writing construction). Anyhow, in fourth grade when everyone was writing full sentences in cursive he could not keep up. He’d get every other sentence. This left me with a decision. Is it more important he learn to write half the sentences in cursive or that he write all of them in printing. In that instance I felt the later was more important.

Anyhow, so far things are going well with the new teacher. My son seems happy with her and the class so far.

Sounds like the worst possible teacher for your son. I am glad he escaped with your help.

We had an artsy teacher last year. He was perfect for my son. He thought my son was awesome and my son did really well in his class.

I think it helps to have teachers who can see the forest through the trees with our kids. That first teacher is really stuck looking at some ridiculous unimportant trees.

The cursive thing is interesting. The old school OG people used to say that all dyslexic kids must do cursive, and that manuscript was inherently harder and even painful. I just think it is very individual, and you don’t see the newer programs taking such dogmatic stances on it. *Some* kids will find cursive easier, well some will find it harder. It is not inherently easier, esp considering the more difficult forms and confusing capitals. Two of my kids in tutoring totally did not want to do cursive, and neither does my nephew. I don’t believe any teacher should force it, but then the teacher described doesn’t sound like a gem exactly.

—des

Des - my son’s school is old school OG right down the line, so your comment makes sense. (by the way - they only take kids for whom they think their over all remediation approach will work and they work miracles in my opinion!!)

I’ve heard of a few kids who just can’t produce cursive well enough for their school work but most of them can manage . My son’s handwriting is legible but looks much younger than he is, and he’s darn slow no matter how he writes. Even typing is slow for him. He’s in 6th this year and will be typing more and more so I’m hoping it will kick in.

My daughter’s handwriting looked childish right into university — she complained she wrote like a twelve-year-old —and it was not terribly fast. Ditto for myself. Her typing was painful to watch, two and three finger hunt and peck, refused to try to do any more and considering my own experiences with people trying to force speed I left her strictly alone. She got through honours and AP classes in high school includiong AP English and History, Spanish 5 and Latin 5 and 6, with childish handwriting and painful typing. Similar for me. Speed ain’t all it’s cracked up to be.

To be quite honest, the only thing I can imagine cursive being important for is if someone were in an emergency situation where directions or information were in cursive (although they could also be in another language so that might not be helpful either!). Also, one may have a teacher in college or high school that writes in cursive on the board so recognition is helpful.

Which brings me to another point. A much more important skill is being able to take good notes. Recognizing important information and being able to pare it down (particularly when writing speed is slow). Even though one can often record lectures, I’ve always felt good note taking skills (the ability to filter out important information) is essential. I’d rather more emphasis be placed on this skill (which really boils down to thinking skills).

that’s for sure!

OK - but a case in point, one of my kiddos learned pretty quickly that it was a lot easier to read those cursive notes than the print notes becuase he could actually tell when one word ended and the next began.

Had we not spent the time developing those skills he would simply have illegible notes.

Cursive was invented to *speed up* writing.

Not only that, but it was re-invented at least four times independently (demotic ancient Egyptian, Roman-Greek office script, Irish uncials, modern cursive, not to mention the bizarre Russian cursive)

If people keep re-inventing the same solution to the problem of writing notes fast, there must be something to it!!

In fact there *is* something to it; a proper cursive with no pen lifts is faster and less tiring than printing becasue there is much less muscular motion and efort involved, and also less eye-hand judgement needed to continually re-position the pen.

The problem is that students are taught printing poorly and cursive worse so they are losing all the benefits that it was invented to provide.
First you need to teach printing with effective directionality and rhythm. If you practice writing every which way for three years — and I have just started with yet another student like this, Grade 3 and gifted and reads at mid Grade 1 level and guess what, prefers to write her “own” inefficient and slow and confusing way — then it is really hard to change. It works better to teach directionality from the start, although a lot can be done later, even up to high school if the student is willing.
Then you need to take the brute force out of writing, to get the student’s body weight off the table and the hand moving freely. I campaign against yellow pencils and for pens, which allow a smooth and non-fatiguing motions, very important as the amout of writing needed increases in high school.
Once the student is writing in the same direction that we read, ie left to right and top to bottom, and not using his entire body weight to form every letter, then changing to cursive is essentially a matter of not lifting the pen.
The problem with printing is that it is not taught at all, or is taught solely visually woth absolutely no thought to the mechanics so kids develop counterproductive mechanics.
The problem with cursive is that it is taught as decoration, not as a handy physical skill for speed. Imagine if basketball players were coached and graded as gymnasts on how graceful their motions were — some would move prettily, a lot would quit, and the scores of the team would drop like a rock. Same with teaching writing for prettiness. The goal of writing is to be read, by the author or by another, and readability is the goal, not prettiness. Remove the decoration aspect from cursive lessons and they will go over a lot better.

In high school students quit moaning about how they have to write and start complaining about the quantity they have to write. I have actually had kids complain when in an hour class they had to use more than one sheet of paper. Forget making it pretty, teach them to write smoothly and easily enough that they can do grade level work. A flowing cursive with no decoration is faster and covers more ground.