can language processing be taught in resource or speech only

I’m sure you’ll get other good input from people more versed in speech issues, but here’s my take:

I’m afraid that there isn’t much to translate - here’s what it sounds like:

The speech lady’s showing up, he’s showing up, she’s going through the motions, and recording his progress or lack thereof. She’s writing down that wish list - what the second grade goals should be - and recording whether he achieves them or not.

a.k.a. “close enough for government work,” or why if schools were businesses they’d go under, and what is *your* problem????

If she’s like most of the speech folks I know, she’s supposed to be doing two peoples’ jobs in the time and space for one, so one more IEP meeting can be an issue. She’s got to take herself away from whatever else is going on - so if it’s during the school day, it’s often students, those same students who aren’t reaching goals… which is harder to do if the speech pathologist is doing paperwork and meetings…

You could at least ask, in writing, with a ‘carbon’ copy to the principal and head of special education, for some clarification. I would ask why, if he has not reached last year’s goals, the goals have been amended to reflect “the second grade goals,” which does not seem to be providing an *individual* education plan. I would ask them„ even if they feel a need to include those goals, to include some expectations for goals they do expect him to meet. After all, it would be rather normal to be concerned after all these sessions of “little progress,” and you really would like some indication that the speech is the appropriate placement. This will put their attitude on record.

Another concrete question is wehther or not something valuable is happening in that butt time (whether or not the arbitrarily assigned goals have been reached). If not, I would at least talk to the resource teacher to see if his time might be better spent there, or in the regular classroom.

Just some random thoughts….

I talked with the resource teacher and she is going to look into her list of goals and see what matches. She also said anything that does not match she can just add under a z goal.

It sounds like it can be done. He response well to her. I am leaning towards doing this because she is getting progress out of him.

I feel bad taking him away. His teacher is nice but I feel she is not motivated. That she is using the reason of being sad or happy as an excuse - his fault, instead of finding something that will work.

I just do not want to complicate things more but the thought of removing him makes me feel more at peace- like it is the right thing.

??????
Anne

I am one of those overworked “speech teachers” I have over 55 kids on my caseload but I still put my kids best interests at heart, I try and service them as if they were my own child and what would I think is best for them. I also know how to write “appropriate goals” that are measureable. I collaborate all the time with RSP, SDC General Education teachers. Sometimes I am not able to see my students the alloted time because of IEP’s, assessments, meetings etc…and I feel horrible when I can’t see my students because I want them to make progress, but what has been asked of me as an SLP is the job of 2 people and I don’t have an aide like a resource person has to help me out with my 55 kids either…the Resource Teacher has 28 kids and a full time aide..go figure…

When students aren’t making progress it could be that the goals weren’t appropriate and also that the SLP is too overworked to really provide a good program for him. If I don’t think I can help a kid I won’t put them on my caseload and if they haven’t made progress, I have to look at myself and ask why. Sometimes, it really isn’t all my fault…sometimes it is because I inherited goals from another SLP that were horrible and needed to be rewritten, or the child has cognitive impairments and the goals were written too high.

Case in point at a school I worked at the prior SLP wrote these astronomical goals that a NON verbal kid would speak CVC words when he could barely breathe. When I asked the SLP about it…she said…to me…”I shoot for the moon, and I don’t stay at that school the next year….” I said…”Yeah…but I don’t create a nightmare IEP for someone else to clean up afterwards either.”

I had another IEP I inherited from this same SLP in High school….guess what…the parent doesn’t trust SLP’s because this other SLP promised things and NEVER delivered. However, I know how this parent feels…the lack of trust…I couldnt’ trust the SLP to write decent goals and the parent felt that services written in the prior IEP had never been honored. I felt “that was then and this is a new school and different SLP. please give me a chance as I truly want what is best for his child. But because the other SLP was in it for the paycheck, it has destroyed a parents trust in me…it makes me want to cry…

Do what you think is best for your child. If you think the RSP is a better match for him and that the speech isn’t working then by all means let go of speech and put more time into RSP.

[quote]I also know how to write “appropriate goals” that are measureable. I collaborate all the time with RSP, SDC General Education teachers. [/quote]

I think these are not appropriate measurable goals since they can change them without showing them mastered. She does not talk the other teachers. Last year I ask the reg teacher what she thought of his progress and she said I do not look at them. If they communicated then she should know. Their rooms where right next to eachother. The speech teacher and the speech assessor are in the same small room/closet. the speech assessor who makes his goal and attends his meeting is good friends with his reg teacher last year yet she did not know his process in speech.

Our speech teacher does not go to IEP meetings or any meetings which is why I asked her to come. How can someone else speak for her without reading her mind. Maybe if she spoke for herself the goals would have been change. We will never know because I was told it is not her job to go to the meetings. She can not decided on his goals only excute them. It is not working this way. It is like playing the telephone line game only this is not a game.

My son likes the speech teacher. He is upset about leaving her but not little boy he is in session with- but he is not showing progress in over a year.

He is making leaps in resource. Now I have the resource teacher worried that I expect her to fix this too. I do not expect a miracle as nice as that would be. Just process above alittle every now and then.

For success I think it would be best but I am worried that my son will be upset/mad for taking him away. He does not want to hurt her feelings.

It is his feels that I am I have to be looking at.

The pressure it on now. I expect to see changes and some progress. But if she has no control what can she do but do the best with what she is givin. What she has been givin is not working. I am going to come to her again and say why is he not progressing.

This time I got he is happy or sad. What more will she say as her reason. He is always sad. Then what…… Is not like she can say it is his goals. they picked them.

I can not have another year of a teacher resenting him for his ld.. taking it out on him…then saying it is not me it is his behavior. The behavior responsing to the resentment.

What do I do???????????????????????????????????
Anne

She is more than likely a SLP-A…Speech/Language Pathology Assistant. She is right, legally, she can’t attend the IEP’s, or write them, she can’t create the goals, she can’t do the assessments, she can only do therapy as prescribed by the speech assessor…which is more than likely the SLP in charge of the SLP-A.

After your last post, I realized what was going on. I would love to have an SLP-A but I don’t. It sounds like your SLP-A is doing the best she can with what the speech assessor gives her to do. I really wonder if the speech assessor is that involved with his therapy. She really should be more involved if the SLP-A is providing the therapy.

I would go ahead and utilize the more skilled person in this instance and that is the RSP teacher. Also augment what you can at home and get him a tutor if you can’t work with him at home.

The speech assessor is based at this school and sees some because this is where her computer is. Their room is a converted storage room so she is near. She also travels to other schools and does IEP and ARD meetings. Her position started last year. I do not know if it is new to the district or just to her. Before last year she was the hands on speech teacher and had a great reputation. Her replacement is OK but if she has no say … what can you say….

If she is an SP-A she is doing it alone. The assessor is not around to often.

Now I feel bad.
I still do not feel right. She is nice and fun but he is not progressing no matter whose fault it is. I did not get the feeling they are willing to change his goals. They like them. It suits them.

I did request him to get tested for auditoy processing. Is that a mistake??

I have been told they do not like to do that test.. but not why???

Anne,

I pulled my own child out of speech-language this year because I went back and compiled her test scores (and yes, I have had a standardized test done every year) and she had made no gains in the last 4 years. I have also had her tested for auditory processing disorder, yes she has it, and no, it has not made a hill of beans difference that we have the diagnosis. Unless you take her for an APD eval with someone nearby who is an audiologist/SLP who can do some private therapy, I see no purpose in getting it evaluated. It is meaningless to a school.

After so many years in schools, I am going to have to say something sad. I do not see most LD teachers remediating reading and writing disorders, and I do not see most SLP’s remediating langauge disorders. The SLP’s here are better at artic, but let’s face it, a language disorder doesn’t go away with 2 thirty minute sessions a week. Patti is exceptional, and I’d have my child with her in a heartbeat, although I am sure she’d like to give some of her children more time in therapy.

I am sure I really insulted the school SLP by producing test scores that showed receptive and expressive language down in the low 80’s the entire 4 tears. Funny thing though…if I had not been knowledgable, you could have believed a totally different scenario. My child was always said to be progressing well and improving! The rose colored glasses were nice…but a lie.

I decided what she was missing in regular class was more valuable than what she was getting pulled out. She now has a S/L IEP, but she is served by consultation for language.

Janis

well I had my meeting. there was 8 of us. OH and I got special treatment. I guess…. the assistant principle does all the meetings but I got the principle to head my meeting this time. The assistant principle was in the building but did not attend this time. Which made me more nervous. Was she there because she wanted to see how my son was being handle first hand or am I labeled a parent to be monitor now? I do not know.

His speech teacher is not an assistant but she does not have full control of the goals given to her students. I did learn something from her. She said in the meeting if acts upset about being there she will ignore him until he is ready. She gets him to work 50% of the time. I do not believe ignoring a student is motivating or incouraging. It is a waste of time. So I have removed my son from this speech teacher. He will be practicing his speech goals in the resource room where respect is mutual.

Boy are the speech teachers and diagnotician upset with me!!!!!
A circle of friends.

I tried to talk with the diagnotician and get her to understand my decision. She is the over seer of my son’s special ed needs. She did not want to hear what I had to say. She said last year needs to stay in the past. She is new the my son’s team and does not know the mean things he had to deal with last year which influences mine and his reactions. I tried to get her see that ..I can forget about last year or I can learn from them. I

I have learn that when a teacher refuses to teach my son for any reason, it is time to do something new. In this case a new teacher. I do not think I got through to her.

I can only hope I made the right decision. I was afraid to switch his reg teacher last year because I was afraid of what would happen if I disagreed with them. I guess I am about to find out. And soon.

It felt good to final listen to my gut and follow through with it. The principle did not try to change my mind. In fact she said nothing the whole meeting and just listen which is not her norm. She was the assistant priciple for the first two years. She is the one that said my son was just a summer boy and needed to repeat first grade. No LD. I guess maybe she has learned from her past that I just might know what I talking about when it comes to my son. Wishful thinking :0) ?

Anne

SOunds like the resource room is a be3tter place for all concerned :-)

Anne,

I am reading your posting and I am somewhat confused…because of I don’t know all the history…and I am not a mind reader…

what did you mean by: if acts upset? Your son? Is the RSP tagged onto your son’s speech goals?

What do you mean by Circle of Friends? Last year needs to stay in the past? So then what is the speech teacher if she isn’t an assistant then what in the heck is she and how does she get by with teaching speech if she doesn’t have a credential?

Maybe it is just me…but can you clarify for me?

I am trying to think of how say all this briefly. His past was posted in the emotional rollercoaster post back in around March or April into May.

To sort of some it up last year he had a teacher that used excessive time sentive reward system for her class that was unmodified for him (he was out of class for atleast 3 hrs of the day) which was damaging his self esteem aside from mean verbal remarks to my son - yes even infront of me. Then she would say she could not teach him because he is unhappy and angry. No I never heard any complaints from co curr teachers or the resource room. Alot more went on in the reg class. It was a nightmare which lead me to find this forum.

As for this year, I asked his speech teacher who is certified but doesnot come to his meetings to please attend this meeting because I was concern about his progress. A few more conversations later I end up in an informal meeting with his speech teacher, the speech assessor, and the resource room teacher to discuss his goals and what may be preventing his process. I was told that sometimes he is not happy about leaving his class and if he is not Happy about it she ignores him until he is ready.

Then we go into the ARD meeting. All areas are discussed. Everything is acceptable. He is happy and getting A’s on first and second grade goals, his teacher and resource teacher like him. I can tell by their body language and choice of words. Then we get to the speech teachers. Their faces tense their tone of voice is defensive. One example they gave me was one time my son was upset because he was not the first one in the door so she ignored him because she will not stand for that. There was a pushing match and he got through the door last. Understandable- yes. I understand but it is not very productive. She does not stop teaching the other boy in the group.
It is not a behavior seen in the reg class or in the resource room.

The guidance councilor asked how often is she working with him during her time. She said 50% of the time. I do not see the point of leaving him there if she is ok with that. This is valuable time and should be used more wisely. My son is 8. He has been getting assistance for his LD half of last year and this year. Speech has been all of last year and this year.

I got the impression they where more out to teach my son a lesson on which beat to march to instead of his disablity.

The circle of friends is his last year teacher, speech assessor, speech teacher, and the diagnotician. They are supporting each other as loyal friends would. They are not bad people. They are supporting last years teacher without knowing all the facts and do not care to hear about any of it.

The speech assessor told me last year that my son needs to accept that life is unfair. She doesnot want to know what was going on in the class, just that he needs to accept it. I think there is bad blood from last year and he needs to be around people outside that circle of friends.

The resource room has similar goals and will be taught and practice in her room as well as in the reg class. He will be assessed every 90 days by the speech assessor. I was told this is something that is usually done with older kids but in this case they will make the exception.

Did I do any better explaining? There is so much to write.

My son does better with teacher that tell him he is good and in return he tries his best for them. When a teacher makes him feel like a bad person and tells him he is mean he shuts down. That is the atmosphere I needed to remove him from.

Ask me again if I did not answer your questions?
Anne

Welp, it soudns like he’s out of the bad situation, though, right?

Sue

It sounds like you want to say something more because your thought ended in a question mark.

what am I missing?

Anne

so the SLP is going to check on his goal progress every 3 months or is she doing to do an “assessment?”

It sounds like the SLP’s were frustrated with his behavior. Often I get kids whose teachers are frustrated with their behavior in class and when I take them I dont’ see any of the behaviors in speech.

I pulled my daughter out of DHH (Deaf and Hard of Hearing) Speech Teacher support because my daughter and this teacher just didn’t get along. They were like oil and water…My daughter needed the support of the DHH teacher but working with the DHH person was more of a negative all across the board. I knew I had a problem when the SLP at the school and her general educaiton teachers kept telling me…they didn’t like this woman either….That was when I became an SLP in my quest to “fix” the problem my DD had…My DD is mainstreamed and doing quite well in high school inspite of being pulled out of DHH support and my doing that portion of her therapy.

Sounds like he is going to be doing better…just let go of the past and move on…supporting your DS as you know best.

Anne,

Her response was similar to two people having a conversation. For example I could say to you.. .”It is a nice day… “Wouldn’t you agree?” And you would respond…”Yes, it is a nice day”

she probably meant…It sounds like he is in a better situation and you solved the problem.

yes. I believe he is out of a bad position. I just wish ….I wish it was easier.

To answer your question Pattim. Every 90 days he will be tested for a marking period grade/percentage- level of achievement. It is the same as it has been but his language goals are being taught in the resource room instead of by the speech pathologist/teacher. Unfortuantly I do not know if I can trust the test because it will be given by the SP assessor who clearly showed a dislike for my son at the meeting. I wish the resource teacher could be the one to give him the test but I would have to remove him completely from speech and that would disqualify him from the resource room. I feel that by giving the responsiblity to the resource room I had most definitly upset the SP Assessor more than she already was. If I could count on professionalism (sp?) then I would never have been in this difficult position to begin with.

It is hard to put it in the past when they are holding my son accountable for last year but I can not hold them accountable for last year.

I am trying.

Anne