Does Appearing Inattentive Mean He Isn't Learning?

Well, first it should be noted that the teacher has NO business telling you anything about meds. It is not her decision. That said, failure to complete assignments and poor results on tests could indicate that he is not learning as well as we would hope. On the other hand, it might just be an indicator that he is not able to show what he knows, due to his ADHD (or LD, if he has one). An output problem, in other words. Certainly, you can’t assume that no learning is taking place based merely on the failure to produce work. More information than that is needed. Does your son like math? If so, he may be more able to stick with it, because it is interesting to him, but have trouble sustaining effort in other subjects that, from his perspective, are not so interesting. Again, without more information, it is hard to know.

Andrea

What a great question. I’d say the answer to it is - it depends. It depends on the subject matter and it depends on the way the class is taught.

In math it can be that some students ‘get it’ right away. One demonstration on the board and they’ve got it. The rest of the time that is devoted to teaching the operation isn’t necessary for the students who ‘got it’ right away and they can likely tune out and only risk the teacher’s wrath - not their learning. But in a heavy detail class like history where the facts just keep rolling…. how one learn those many facts without being attentive to them?

Now I have met some students who appeared inattentive but who were listening very well through their glazed look. Appearances, as they say, can be deceiving.

In the case of this one class, as he doesn’t do well on tests and doesn’t complete the homework… well, he may be learning but school will ask him to prove that. It isn’t enough in school just to learn (sadly) students have to prove they’ve learned by taking tests and doing well on them.

Flip the question around. Why else is do poorly on tests and class work? Do you think he’s choosing to do that?

Good luck.

My son can listen very well but can not always demonstrate what he knows on paper. Thanks to several therapies that is changing.

For him it was a visual processing issue. He couldn’t focus on the page because his eyes didn’t work. Anyone who took the time to speak to him could see he could focus on what was said to him.

He would also not finish reading or written work because any “close” work, work that required he use his eyes, eyes he didn’t really have any control over, was something to be avoided. It was painful and difficult.

I really thought he was add for awhile there but now I am not so sure.

I am not saying this is your situation. I am just saying sometimes things are not as they seem.

He is not learning when he is in that state. I know first hand with the experiences we have had with our son off meds. We had to reteach his concepts to him every single night because he was tuned out and only listening to what he wanted, and when he wanted.. And the longer this persists the wider the vortex will be between him and his classmates. I have been playing catchup with my daughter who went undiagnosed ADD-Inattentive for 5 years and she was so far behind that it is almost impossible to catch up.

Your answers have given me a lot to think about.

I’d say he likes both classes about the same— one being science and one algebra.

As far as testing, I have found that he can do many equations, etc. in his head and does so on tests. However, as a result, he has forgotten the formulas so, when the more difficult equations show up towards the end of the test, he gives up. Therefore, he almost consistently gets half of the questions right and fails.
The progressive difficulty of questions does not happen on science tests, so his grade is better in that class.

As far as not learning, I have to believe that he is. I have very carefully observed his work on and off meds. He has to keep a “journal” in each class. I have noticed in the past that, off meds, his note taking is very hit-and-miss (he hates to write to begin with). On meds, the notes were neater and more complete. This last quarter, off of meds, there isn’t a big difference.

In regard to teachers getting involved in the medication issue— it brings me to a slow boil as well. However, I have learned over the years to either ignore it or leave it with a “thanks, but we leave medication decisions to our son’s doctor”.

Another thing I have been thinking of is that, when my son was younger, if he was asked to repeat back instructions or information, even if he was glued to the TV and/or appeared to be totally involved in something else, he could repeat verbatim what was said. Oddly, he had to be up and walking around in a circle when he did this.

I have two son diagnosed ADD and ADHD. Their symtoms are totaly different. You said your daughter was diagnosed ADD-Inattentive (I think). Can you direct me to an informatin source that can help me to better understand the differences and how to help them. I believe one of my sons is also gifted, and now at 7th grade is beginning to struggle. He is bringing home A’s and B’s with an occasional C(in courses like History and Computer Applications, too many details) I would accept these grades myself, but he feels totally frustrated because he feels that he is not measuring up to his ability somehow. does that make sense? He says he wants to repeat 7th partly because he is only 12. Most of the kids are older by 1-2 years. He is also small for his age. I’m torn because I know he could go on to 8th, but will he fall farther behind in his ability to do the work. I would allow him to repeat 7th if I beleived it would solve most of his difficulties. Is he intuitively wise, so that he knows what he needs? Or does he need some other intervention because the ADHD is starting to be a problem inspite of his exceptional intelligence? Wordy aren’t I. Any ideas?

I have a gifted/ld/adhd son, so I can relate to what you are saying. It is often the case that these kids can compensate for their weaknesses to a certain point, but finally it becomes too much and they begin to fail. Have you considered having him work with a tuto?. We do that, even though my son is an A student. The truth is, without tutoring he probably would not do as well. Working one on one with somebody helps to reinforce learning and makes him feel encouraged as well.

Andrea

Anyone can learn when they are focused but when he chooses to tune out he isn’t learning in an efficient manner. One can go through life grazing, he is only getting things on the surface, not in depth and that is what is showing up on the tests… He isn’t sticking through until the end, he is choosing to swim in his own comfort pool zone that he has. He needs to reach out and expand his comfort zone and make it a lake…in order to do that he has to get through the difficult stage, the quicksand stage as he expands his abilities. He needs to realize that he is responsible for his own success and that he gets what HE ALONE settles for, it doesn’t matter what dreams you have for him, because he needs to master himself..

Perhaps you could jointly read the book Emotional Intelligence by Daniel Goleman. My son read this when he was in 8th grade and. He realized that he was responsible for his own success and choices and we were able to get him into being responsible. However, things hit the fan in 9th grade, he couldn’t keep up with everything and that was when we tried medication and it made a huge difference. we have had this monkey on our back for a long time. I took him in 2nd grade to the pediatrician and we opted to not do meds. But by 9th grade.we had to move because his inattentive behaviors and choices were closing doors to the options he would have after high school.

We do have a tutor for my son, and it helps— working one-on-one clears up a lot for him.

I think what Pattim said about “grazing” is probably true in my son’s case. He has always been that way— missing out on bits of important information. Yet, when he is interested in something, that is not the case. The old paradox of ADD, I guess. However, medication has not helped much in terms of inattention. I do not have ADD but have to drag myself back to a train of thought or task very often. Hopefully, he will be able to teach himself this as well with time.

As far as maturity he tends to lag about six months behind other kids his age. In addition, he is a fairly young 8th grader (13 and born in August) which adds to the mix. He has not yet begun to accept responsibility for his education— he has asked me to “be a policeman” meaning to keep on him about school and his work.

I spoke with one of his teachers yesterday who also has a psychology degree, and she told me that it is not unusual for boys his age to not be self-motivated. My son has great intentions, but when it comes to a choice between interacting with his friends and school work, he opts for play. So, it looks like I will have to be the policeman, as he put it, until he gets to the point that he wants and is able to handle it himself.

We do have a tutor for my son, and it helps— working one-on-one clears up a lot for him.

I think what Pattim said about “grazing” is probably true in my son’s case. He has always been that way— missing out on bits of important information. Yet, when he is interested in something, that is not the case. The old paradox of ADD, I guess. However, medication has not helped much in terms of inattention. I do not have ADD but have to drag myself back to a train of thought or task very often. Hopefully, he will be able to teach himself this as well with time.

As far as maturity he tends to lag about six months behind other kids his age. In addition, he is a fairly young 8th grader (13 and born in August) which adds to the mix. He has not yet begun to accept responsibility for his education— he has asked me to “be a policeman” meaning to keep on him about school and his work.

I spoke with one of his teachers yesterday who also has a psychology degree, and she told me that it is not unusual for boys his age to not be self-motivated. My son has great intentions, but when it comes to a choice between interacting with his friends and school work, he opts for play. So, it looks like I will have to be the policeman, as he put it, until he gets to the point that he wants and is able to handle it himself.

What really helped my other son grow up was getting a job at the grocery store and living two years of his life in Mexico on his own. In college he still battled his ADD, he was academic probabation. After he got back from Mexico he got himself out of academic probabation, by working hard but he realized that he needed more, so he decided to try meds and now he is doing much better.

In regards to the Peter Pan’s I know… my adult brothers ..they never grew out of their ADD, still living at home with my parents and they are 40 years old :-( Sadly, my parents are flat broke.

So I guess you never hit the “plateau” where you can stop the support?

I have a gifted, ADD, LD daughter who is doing very well in 4th grade. I am putting her in OG tutoring for the Summer. I was asked recently, “Why are you continuing to spend all this money when she’s ahead of the game?”

I feel like we can get behind the game in the blink of an eye. So you have found even if they get the early intervention, they will - in most cases - continue to need support all the way through school and college?

I KNOW LDs and ADD don’t disappear, so it’s not that question. Just wanted to hear from a mom who has an older child to see what your experience has been.

Well, we haven’t *yet* reached that point. I remain hopeful that we will, because each year my son becomes more independent. My son is 12 and in sixth grade. We still use a tutor all year, including in the summer. Initially, we used tutoring to help bring him up to grade level and to reinforce skills that he had learned but forgotten. We still use a tutor for skills reinforcement, but also for elaboration and extension of subjects he has studied and is interested in. Even the best school can be boring and teachers do have to present things from a group perspective. My son’s tutor (who was also his gt/ld classroom teacher for several years) knows and respects him as an individual and can tailor things just for him. He’ll ask her things he would never ask a teacher, and will work harder on difficult things like writing because she pairs the acquistion of skills with with fun and interesting subject matter. So, for us, tutoring is both a way to acquire skills and a way to bolster my son’s confidence in his own abilities.

Andrea

Most ADHD children (short attention span, distractible) do learn parts of the materials in various classes; however, like a child with undiagnosed petit mal/absence epilepsy, an ADHD child may not attend to all the material presented all the time.

Some of those with ADHD respond well to the right ADHD medicine and, for them, the ADHD medicine has a major benefit in allowing them to temporarily attend more fully to the subjects presented. In other cases, the ADHD meds simply fail to work or work well and there is no need to use a medicine which doesn’t work for the child due to the underlying nature of the attention deficit.

http://www.nimh.nih.gov/publicat/adhd.cfm

[quote:4c6a4f2239=”acrowell”]My 13 1/2 year old son has been moderately hyperactive in the past but has largely either grown out of it or learned to compensate.

He has been off of meds for the past school quarter. Not surprisingly, his grades slipped, but not dramatically and not enough for us to justify putting him back on meds as he has bad side effects from stimulants.

When I last spoke to one teacher, she said that she feels my son is “physically but not mentally” present in her classroom, primarily based on the fact that he does not complete his classroom work and does not do well on tests (something he has trouble with on or off of meds). She concludes that his inattention (easy distractability being his main ADHD symptom) means he is not learning, and he should probably be back on meds.

However, he is able to work out fairly complicated algebraic equations in his 8th grade algebra class doing the kind of work I didn’t do until later in high school.

My question then is, it is reasonable to assume that, just because a child appears inattentive, he is not learning?[/quote]

My brother who has struggled with ADD-Inattentive is a very intelligent man. Although he may never have finished reading assignments and was not good at reguritating information when put on the spot in class, he absorbed the information in class. He was very good at auditory learning and excelled in math and Spanish in high school. He may never have had the grades to prove his intelligence, but to have a converstaion with him, he very knowledgable. Don’t let what the teacher says determine your choices. My brother was on Ridilan but he determined that it was of no use to him, instead his psychologist who tested him suggested caffeine as an alternative to the expensive drugs. My brother found that a cup of coffee was as useful as his meds. The down side was that he needed more than one cup and by lunchtime the caffeine had worn off. He probably should have taken a thermal container with coffee to get him through the day. It probably would have been the difference between being a D-C student to a C-B student. :wink:

:cry: Does anyone know what the rights of a child are in respect to special ed. She has ADHD and has been off meds for over a year, her teachers say she cannot stay foccused and doesnt seem to be paying attention and sometimes even falls asleep in class. One teacher even said out loud do you want to go to the resoucre room, that was letting the enire class know she was a special ed student. One teacher only gives 5 passes to the bathroom each quater and when that runs out and you have to go you get punished and get after school detention. That alone is enough to make a child have a low self essteem. She doesnt want to go to the resoucre room because the only read to her. She can read but she does not always understand what it is she is reading and in the resoucre room that would be considered helping the child which is not allowed only reading to hear. She does not understand what is before her and therefore she is failing. Any suggestions from anyone?? I need help :twisted:

Are you doing anything to address her ADHD now that she is not taking medication? That could help a lot.

we tried all the emds and most worked for a while then it got worse than not being on it. The doctor basiclly gave up and did not know what else to do. With out the meds she is not as hyper just the opposite, I think she just grew out of it, she also has ODD which is better off the meds, I am stuck someone on here suggested caffiene before school any other suggestions? :x :idea:

YOu need a better doctor! Ask about behavioral approaches to ADHD. They can help. There are also non-meds approaches ranging from dietary changes to training programs like Interactive Metronome. These kinds of interventions are not as well-researched as standard treatment with meds and may or may not be of value. Still, if she can’t take meds, you’ve got to do something else. seriously, behavior modification is a very sound approach for ADHD. You should check it out and ask a doctor who is expert about it.

reply to origional post…..

Just my “humble” opinion…as I’m not too familiar with ADHD..but am learning….But I find it questionable that the same problems exist with or with out meds.

ADHD was expressed a reason for my daughter learning difficulties in 2nd Grade.(Now in 4th)..After a full Academic eval as well as outside evals..it was conclude it was APD/ Receptive and Expressive….Hence the incomplete papers and tests as well as the “pleasent space cadet symdrom”..LOL or Phsycally thier but not mentally. (Comprehension of Language Problems)..But please keep in mind that some kids have both ADHD/ADD and a LD.

Through lots of reading on APD and ADHD..I found that thier syptoms are soooooooo similar.

Binky

What you’re describing sounds consistent with my own experiences as an ADD-inattentive schoolchild. I was bored in school. I could see where the teachers were going with their explanations as soon as they started, and I just couldn’t remain focused on their long, droning lectures. Throughout college, I was wildly inconsistent, doing very well in classes I liked and barely scraping by in others. This was very frustrating to me. I knew I was smart, but I had no ability to stay focused on subjects I found too dry (like physics). Based on my own experience, I wouldn’t be too hard on a student who zones out in class. I’ve been there, and zoning out was not a conscious choice!

So, what meds has he tried? Maybe he hasn’t tried the right one yet. Or maybe his school isn’t stimulating enough for him. It could be that he’s just coasting along through school, trying to get by until he can get into a more stimulating, congenial environment where he can concentrate on his true interests. I wish him luck on his journey, having BTDT. :wink:

Kristi