For those who might be interested, we are now 2months into PACE program and have started MTC (Master the Code)- lesson 6 out of the 24. For those familiar with the programs, we are mainly on PACE level 9’s and 10’s, a few levels have past adult and completed all the AP lessons.
MTC has been harder for her than the AP drills (they are very similar, but use more complex sound pictures). She has a hard time remembering the sound picture code. But the drills are good for her - although slow, she picks it up.
RESULTS: The 1st 2 weeks into the PACE, we noticed that she was reading more precise - not making as many errors. This slacked off when she went back on track and it always seems to take her 3-4 weeks to pick up (we are on year round track school - yuck). We really did not notice any kind of improvements/benefits for 6 weeks or so into the program from that point on- however she was still passing levels within the PACE program.
It wasn’t until about 1 week ago after we started the Master the Code portion of the program- right after learning/drilling -oi, oy, ou, ow, u-e sounds (this was a particularly hard sound picture for her), we are seeing some big improvements. She is reading 3rd grade level chapter books (she is in 2nd). She is slow, but without alot of errors. Her reading is different. We can see her attack the word correctly vs. guessing(better than before anyway). She doesn’t need to use her fingers to keep her speed and she LIKES reading. I am finding her take her books into the bathroom to read by herself and she asks me if we can continue reading vs. me saying ‘just a few more pages’ (so I think she is comprehending?). She is reading a book that 2 months ago was a huge struggle. She now doesn’t want to put it down?
We still have a ways to go with both programs and the holidays have slowed us down. But I’m feeling so positive and wanted to share.
Re: Our experience with PACE
I think the reading results we are seeing are due to Master the Code. If we had not followed up with the MTC portion of program, I don’t think we would have seen the gains. Her weaknesses were mainly in auditory processing, but she didn’t start hitting any difficulty really until the MTC portion. She is not very fast on the MTC ‘drills’ - has to do every other beat at a slower pace. The ‘sounds’ are not automatic for her yet, but she seems to understand what she is suppose to be learning.
Spelling is still not happening. We haven’t hit those lessons yet in MTC, so am keeping my fingers crossed.
I can see that it would be hard to even ‘think’ about doing PACE over again. I’m looking forward to completing - so is my dd!
Re: MTC
We thought seriously about MTC but neither my son or I could stomach the idea. We had so many problems getting through the AP portion. There were several exercises we didn’t get as far as you were supposed to to start MTC (while others we completed). The school, with a new resource teacher, has written auditory processing goals. She has been trained in both PG and LIPS. I am so sick of it—I am glad to have someone else carrying some of the load. I think we hit a real barrier with auditory processing—we just couldn’t get past it. We are now doing The Listening Program. Your success with sound therapy encouraged me to try it.
Re: MTC
Many of the MTC drills are built on the AP drills in PACE, so you would have really struggled. The MTC drills are very systematic and structured - this has been good for my dd. She seems to remember the ‘tendencies’ better than I do and the program is making sense to her. The drills are helping her to remember the sound/symbol better than before - I was very surprised that she still could not remember alot of the sound pictures that she had learned with reading reflex. When I introduce a new lesson - it takes her about 3 days before she masters it(and she is still slow with the drill at that).
I’ve resorted to the fact that the sound/symbol/naming will never be automatic for her - she will always have periodic memory lapses in this area. But at least she is learning the rules and strategies to figure it out on her own. I’m thinking that if she can pass the levels she is passing with PACE(I have difficulty with the levels she is on) - then she can make it in school!
P.S. Our resource teacher is LIPS trained and supposedly they are implementing this with our dd. I don’t know how tho? She gets in-classroom help and I don’t know how you would do LIPS in the classroom - I don’t even think she’s getting very much in-classroom help? Good luck - at least you are much better off this year than last!
Re: PACE/MTC update
I always encourage my clients to do The Listening Program at the same time as they do PACE. It helps them focus and process the sounds better..
Re: PACE/MTC update
I am also a big supporter of sound therapy. My child was one of the first clients to do The Listening Program(we have done TLP 4 times!). Her Neurophysch is one of the developers of the program. We also do Tomatis thru him. Matter of fact, we did a round of Tomatis prior to doing PACE - I really feel it gives her an edge when doing cognitive therapy.
I have seen better results with Tomatis vs. TLP.
Re: PACE/MTC update
I have read a lot about pace and master code programs. I am a little confused
it sounds like you just do not do it once it has to be done again and again is that correct. The listening program also confuses me as to why you do it before the pace. Can someone explain these programs in detail. Please feel free to email me privately at [email protected] if this has already been discussed.
Lisa
NJ
Re: TLP
That’s interesting. It was the walls we hit doing PACE—particularly the AP portion that has lead us to do the TLP now.
My son is almost half way through TLP and has started complaining in the last few days. about the music hurting his ears. Is this typical? Should I be concerned?
Beth
Re: MTC
We are def. better off than last year but I know what you mean about these programs really requiring a lot of one on one. I have started over in PG with him and he doesn’t seem to mind that. I think that is because it so far is pretty easy for him. The resource teacher is doing the same at school so we are all on one page which helps. I see the PACE work helping him—his segmenting and blending are def. better. I am hoping he will retain it better the second time through.
I see the odd memory gaps with my son too. Must be part of the LD picture.
Beth
Re: PACE/MTC update
Usually PACE and MTC are done only once. However, several of us mothers have gotten trained in these programs, in which case it is easy to do them once, and then pick them up again in a year or so and take them further. Some of the skills in PACE go up into high school range. Since MTC is for reading, typically you only do MTC once, and never do it again after a child is reading at an acceptable level.
MTC is an add-on program to PACE. Typically you start PACE first and need to work up to a certain level before the child can start MTC (optional). You normally want to have all sensory/motor level problems corrected as much as possible before investing time and money into PACE, because it is expensive and intensive in terms of time and energy.
TLP is the only sound therapy that you can buy and do at home without a provider. It’s mild, but easy to do. If it helps some, but the child still has problems down the line, it’s easy to do again — with no extra cost — because you already have it at home.
A lot depends on how severe a child is, and how many problems there are. Not all children with learning difficulties have auditory processing problems, for example. These children would not benefit much, if any, from a program such as TLP.
Mary
Re: TLP
yes, this is typical. However, make sure you don’t have the volume too loud. We listen at low volume (level 2-3 indicator on our Sony CD player?).
The sound does get very irritating about half way thru. I understand this is good - it means you are seeing some effect from it. You are hitting the high frequencies and then it will level off again toward the end of the program.
My dd has the same complaint when we did Tomatis last time and Dr. said it was normal.
I have done TLP several times. The first time I had the same reaction - sound was much more sensitive to me. I had a hard time during the middle of the program to even talk on the phone - had to hold the phone away from my ear. The second time I did it - I did not have this effect.
If you are doing programs concurrently as TLP - you may also see some ‘regression’ in your cognitive work. This too passes and you should end up ahead of where you started - so don’t get bummed if you see that. I think it’s best to do the TLP first and then immediately start working on those areas that were problems for you (maybe dig up some the PACE exercises that he was stumped with and see if you can jump to next level?).
Because you have done so much with him already, you may find the benefits to be real subtle - also, our Dr. told me that doing TLP more than once was most beneficial.
Re: TLP
Thanks Dea.
We went to Neuronet yesterday and one interesting affect is my son’s ability to keep and hear variations in pitch. This, according to therapist, will help his fine motor sequencing in general—which has been an area of continuing concern. We had road blocked here as well (this was when we backed way up after not being able to do the writing exercise in PACE).
I did turn the volume down and that helped I think. Also, I have been careful with him being too tired (we do it first thing in the morning and last thing at night) because it seems to irritate him more then.
We are just doing pitch exercises with a Kazoo for Neuronet right now (he does certain sequences and then has to identify certain sequences). I had asked to not have more than 15 minutes of work with TLP.
I will try some PACE AP exercises after we finish. Will be really nice if they are easier to do. I know there are still problems there, although he is much improved.
Did you see any results from doing TLP?
Right now it is enough for me to get my son to do it but did think about it (and did do the first day).
Beth
Re: TLP
My personal goals with TLP were to address stress and sleep (be in a better mood). The first time I did it, after the 3rd week I did notice a BIG sleep improvement. However, about mid thru program, I had some very heavy stress weeks (work related) and felt all my benefits go down the drain.
I then did it again about 6-8mo. later. Again, my work left my listening schedule very irradic and inconsistent. I can’t say I did see any results.
I will say that I very much enjoyed doing the listening. Especially in the evening - it was almost like an addiction. Couldn’t wait and it would lull me right to sleep.
My dd also really likes doing TLP!! She would rather do TLP vs. Tomatis (Tomatis irritates her ears, similar to what your son is complaining about). Personnally, I think it’s still hitting areas of non-development.
Re: TLP
Dea,
I think I may try it. It is interesting—working with my son. It has become obvious to me and to NN provider that I have a lot of the same weaknesses with sounds. I just don’t have other weaknesses he has—like visual—and so compenstate better. She wants to do some before testing on me and then have me do TLP. I am willing to be a guinea pig!
Beth
Dea,
I am so glad you are having so much success with PACE/MTC. It must be a big relief.
I wanted to share our experience, which hasn’t been as life changing, because I know parents use these boards to make decisions about what to do with their kids. We started PACE in June and did it for 12 weeks. We continued another six weeks doing just the auditory (AP) portion of the program. We stopped before ever finishing the AP part.
My son has CAPD, visual processing deficits, word retrieval, and sensory integration issues (mostly vestibular). He has had both difficulty learning to decode and fleuncy issues with reading.
For us, PACE has had a positive impact but nothing like what you had. That, quite frankly, is because he was unable to pass through the program. We had a number of exercises where he never passed even the first level and we did not complete half of the AP exercises, despite a very sustained effort. This is not what you expect when you do these programs.
I think this is because he still has unresolved sensory/motor issues and PACE has highlighted where these are at. We have backtracked and are trying to address them.
Still, we got some very specific gains in some areas. We have seen improved ability to decode syllables. He can handle chunks of words much better than before. He now can distinguish between the short vowel sounds, something he couldn’t do before. His visual processing is much better in terms of speed of processing, visual discrimination and visual spatial things.
We may return to PACE (I was the trainer) after we complete some other therapy, although at the moment I can hardly stomach the idea. It wore us out!!
Beth