Read the article on the “home page” if you are interested. I am interested in your comments re. the proposed three-tiered model of LD.
One huge concern I have is the borderline to low average child, the ones who have IQs in the 70-85 range who are 1-2 standard deviations below the average intellectually (and I do refer to kiddoes who are pretty much in this category across the board, not to the ones who have huge intra-test scatter with average scores in this range). I am concerned that any child who fails, after general classroom and second tier interventions, to learn grade level curriculum ends up with an IEP.
The IQ discrepancy formula eliminates these youngsters from special ed. because they are defined as working to their potential and their potential is less than average. I am concerned that under this model these kiddoes may end up in special ed. programs.
I do not believe this type of child belongs in special ed. programs. The primary intervention this sort of child needs is slower paced instruction with more practice to gain mastery. General education does need to address the needs of the students who fall below and those who fall above average. Special education should address the needs of kiddoes who need special education because of a disability.
Many low ability youngsters can and do learn decoding skills just fine. Their lower cognitive abilities do effect comprehension, learning concepts and rate of progress. Special ed. should not become a dumping ground and general ed. teachers need to be permitted to teach to varying ability levels of students.
The standards movement right now as I see it being implemented is causing great harm to some youngsters. Teachers are absolutely required to teach grade level standards and to cover ALL grade level standards each year, regardless of the pace at which a child can learn. The fall-out from this is frightening. I am, for instance, hearing of greater numbers of so-called “math disability” than ever before.
In our 4th year of very aggressive math standards, I think we are merely finding more and more kiddoes who crash and burn by 4th-5th grade because they have too many holes and gaps in their basic understandings due to the rapid pace of teaching our teachers must maintain to cover all the standards.
Any thoughts? What are you folks seeing out there?
Re: Regular ed Responsibilities
Ken,
I very much agree with you. I have always had such concern for those “gap” children. I think some in special ed. are guilty of placing the children in special ed. because they see them neglected in regular ed.and feel sorry for them. The problem is, with all the push for high standards, how can we expect the 75 IQ kids to have the higher order thinging skills that are required on many of the state tests? How many 75 IQ kids can pass Algebra which is a requirement for graduation un my state? I still think there needs to be a college prep diploma and a workforce diploma for other kids. We do have an occupational diploma which is geared for the EMH kids. But we surely need something for those kids who are below average but not special ed.
Janis
Re: What are you saying?
I never answered that question. No, I am not. However, I am concerned that this new proposed model may potentially place children who are doing the best they can and will never be at grade level.
Examples of kids we don’t place include kids who test pretty flat in the verbal and performance IQ, generally in 80’s, sometimes in 70’s, w/o siginificant scatter in subtests, AND where academic performance is commensurate with this assessment. If we do outlaw intelligence testing, we will be where we are right now in CA with testing black youngsters. Every place does it differently and we do have a significant number of probably low average IQ black children in resource programs on the label LD because evaluators either assume average ability or do some of the stuff that is permitted that really does not give much specific ability information.
Last year we used the DAS with one who looked 70’s - 80’s overall, w/o any real strengths, excepting relative strengths. However, only one psych is trained with this instrument.
I just finished academics on a boy who in fifth grade reads 2-3 grade level, but has WJ-III scores in all areas, and I did a number of them, in the 70s and 80s. Further, because it is a Spanish speaking family, though he has always attended English speaking school, I did the Woodcock-Munoz, to find Spanish language scores in the 40’s and 50’s with English language scores in the 70’s. The psych will also look at him. However, I don’t see LD, rather I see an E.L.L. child who has very low average ability who is learning as fast as he can. Should he be placed in special ed. with an IEP? Or, should general education be eventually forced to deal with this 18% who fall below the average range of ability?
Re: Be sure to give it time
Karen,
I use a timer a lot with my son and I have a radio shack one that doesn’t buzz or do anything. He doesn’t know if the time is up unless I tell him. Anyway, if you want a collection of timers, I love this one. Easy to use too—some of them take a masters degree.
Beth
Re: Regular ed Responsibilities
I also think that school evaluators don’t like to tell parents what having an IQ in the 70’s or 80’s means in terms of educational progress in school; not everyone can score at the 50% percentile or above. I think well-meaning special ed. evaluators call these students LD in order to sevice them; but this backfires as these kids don’t catch up and graduate from services.
Re: Regular ed Responsibilities
Absolutely, SAR! Who wants to tell parents that their child is too slow to meet graduation requirements, so they must stay in a box in which they do not fit until age 16 when they can drop out and disappear. Until someone cares enough about these kids to help them achieve to their portential and then design a diploma track for them, they will continue to suffer injustice!
Janis
Re: Regular ed Responsibilities
Now of course we know the reasons for this. There is a disproportionate number of minority students who fall in this category (slow learners), so we need to keep them as invisible as possible because it causes problems to have this fact recognized. So instead of doing something positive about it, we just ignore it.
Janis
Re: Regular ed Responsibilities
Janis,
Once again, you have said what I wanted to, but it comes easier from you because you are a teacher.
Thanks again, :-)
Lil
Re: Fluency
I have just checked out the Great Leaps website, but it doesn’t really describe the materials. You sound like you really know what you’re doing, so I value your opinion. Can you give me a better idea of how the program works? Is it good for 7th-8th graders who comprehend well, decode fairly well, but are disfluent in connected reading? How about their math program? Do you know anything about that?
Thanks,
Fern
Great Leaps
One of the things I like about Great Leaps is that the books are leveled: Primary, Elementary, Middle, and High School/Adult so that the subject matter is more appropriate. Each level begins with Primer or PP (can’t remember which and they’re at school) and travels through the appropriate grade level for that age group. So, middle school would have stories from PP (or P) all the way through 8th grade.
The phrases are the same in each book. Begins with easy 2-word phrases: He is, I am, kind of thing; then it progresses onward at a slow and steady pace. I have always begun phrases with the first probe.
For the stories section, one would begin the student where flow is achieved: Not so easy that they’re totally fluent but not so difficult that frustration looms.
Nice charts in the back: I let my H.S. students chart—did with middle school kids, also. They like doing it.
You’ll need two sets: one for student and one for examiner. Nice, heavy-duty binders. Nice heavy paper that doesn’t tear easily, though my pages are quite worn after a couple of school years.
A tip: I lay a piece of overhead film on top of the page for marking errors during probes. I have *lots* of them and have a student wash the vis-a-vis markers at the end of the day or after school. Even light mark erasures ruin the book after a time. I always mark errors because kids need to have specific feedback.
Timed readings are at sight and for one minute for each segment. As I said earlier, I don’t use the phonics because it doesn’t fit my teaching sequence. Practice is very appropriate after the timed trial at sight.
Ken and Dr. Mercer put out a very nice program. I haven’t used the math but feel it must be good, too as I don’t believe either of these gentlemen would publish a shoddy product. I do know one who uses it and likes it but cannot give particulars. She lurks sometimes but never posts. I’ve encouraged…
Let me know if other questions. Or, post them for Ken on the Great Leaps website. I know he’ll get back with you.
Re: Great Leaps
I have acess to Great Leaps and use it… I have had no training….word of mouth only!!! . do you use it every day…????.I just can’t get the time to do that in a small group meeting for an hour….tell me strategies you do to make it successful for you….I work with 2-6th grade students Connie
Re: Great Leaps
connie wrote:
>
> I have acess to Great Leaps and use it… I have had no
> training….word of mouth only!!! . do you use it every
> day…????.
Yes, either I, a parent volunteer, or a paid assistant do it 1:1 each block. Our blocks are every other day in a H.S. setting. We did it every day in a middle school setting as our blocks were daily.
….tell me strategies you do to
> make it successful for you….I work with 2-6th grade
> students
What do you mean? Great Leaps is the strategy. I also do choral reading in small groups. *A little* readers’ theater in small groups. Great Leaps is done 1:1 but only takes 5 minutes.
How are your structurin your groups?
Students with lower IQ’s (75-85) are not and never have been considered handicapped under the law. Yet, many have been railroaded into special education placements (esp. in learning disabilities classrooms) because of an inability and refusal by regular education across this country to structure meaningful education for these citizens. It is a crime and it goes on unabated. It has ruined the lives of many students, it has wrecked special education. I hope I live long enough to see this answered in our country.